GCSE option refused by school

[Twella09]

Hi, my DD is in yr 9 and has had her letter confirming her GCSE options. Her letter states that school aren't running Philosophy & Ethics and that she will need to take Spanish instead. She's really disappointed as she loves the idea of Philosophy & Ethics but doesn't want to take Spanish. She has spoken to one of her teachers and he has said there weren't enough people wanting to take P&E so the course can't be run.

I'm livid as school have encouraged the children to choose GCSE subjects that they are interested in as it's hard work and having an interest in a subject goes some way to making it easier but then go and do this to her. I'm also suspicious as the school is a specialist language school and their decision feels convenient for them!

I'm planning to get in contact with school on Monday to discuss our disappointment/anger and try to get the decision overturned but feel they'll just keep rolling out the 'under subscribed' line. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the best result for my DD?

Thanks
Tx

Denise... 6th form is a bit ahead of the game; it’s GCSEs she’s picking not a levels.

I think its pretty common for schools to rule out 1 option either due to lack of numbers or school deciding it doesn't meet their criteria. My DD had geography vetoed, it was a bit annoying as she was predicted a 9 but she was told she had to have 1 from a different category.

She did get a choice however, saying you only have one choice as the replacement is unusual though if she hasn't got a language at all then a language school may well have a requirement to have at least one. Otherwise I don't think you can make them run it without the numbers but they should be able to offer more alternatives normally.

@Goodtohear

Similar happened to dc1 - however when they couldn't run a course because of poor uptake all dc concerned were given a minimum of two options to choose from and a 1:1 meeting in order to discuss the best option for them. I'm not sure you could do anything about the course they are not running however you could ask what other options are available.

It is frustrating and like you say, she needs to know what her options are, if there's any, other than Spanish. Thanks

There isn't an exam board that runs a Phil & Ethics GCSE. Since the Govian reforms all course have to study at least 2 religions, one of which is Christianity.

Statutory provision of RE is until 18, but does not have to be through an examinable course- many schools will deliver through form time or combined with PSHE.

All this is by the by however for OP, they cannot run a course with minimal students especially if the RE dept is staffed by non-specialists.

If you want to DM me I can happily send you over some of my GCSE RS resources and your DD can decide if she wants to pursue as a private candidate.
(Might even put myself up as a private tutor! 😉)

There isn't much the school can do if there simply isn't the uptake.

Don't fight OP, it's pointless.
Is this a small school?
Ds1 was forced to take an A'level he didn't want because of a timetabling clash.

We only had 8 people doing GCSE music and 2 doing AS level music, 1 doing A level. Our classes weren't cancelled.

JustAnotherOpinion21 was that a private school, most state schools do not have the budget or timetable space to run classes with only a few students

Most state schools cannot afford such small classes now. We have A levels cancelled if there are under 8 students.

Philosophy and Ethics IS RS. They label it as that to reflect some of the units studied and make it more appealing to students.

All schools timetable differently. It might be that Spanish is all that's available as an alternative or there are others. Is have expected them to have already offered the range of alternatives if there were some.

Some schools (independents) build the timetable around the choices and make sure everyone gets what they want. However it means running lots of small classes that they can afford and state schools cannot. Even then, some choices might not be possible.

Other choices can also dictate what is available as sometimes a couple of subjects are timetabled together. It is extremely comolex to do the timetable and all the feeling furious in the world won't stop that.

All you can do is enquire and ask to speak to the timetabler. A conversation is likely to be more useful in revealing exactly what is and isn't possible.

Unfortunately lots of students can't study what they'd like and end up with options that are a poor fit. It's another feature of the poorly funded system which means schools have zero flexibility on staffing due to cost and can only run classes that meet very high minimum numbers. Lots can no longer offer creative subjects as a result and the curriculum is narrower and narrower to ensure large classes which are financially viable. Bigger schools sometimes can manage a bit more flexibility by cross-subsidising some smaller subjects with larger subjects running bigger classes still.

It's crap, but the reality.

Just be careful to adopt an enquiring and looking for solutions tone rather than the furious one which you seemed to voice in your opening post. There will be limits to what can be achieved but people will always help someone who asks politely and in a non accusative tone more than someone who is really aggressive.

Has she already selected a language?

@JustAnotherOpinion21

We only had 8 people doing GCSE music and 2 doing AS level music, 1 doing A level. Our classes weren't cancelled.

That is not unusual at A level, especially performance subjects, and the staff probably only teach Music so have space in the timetable.

Sometimes creative subjects are 'cross-subsidised' by the popular, non-creative subjects. Music can run with 8 because Geography has classes of 28 at GCSE level.

However, this is becoming less and less common. Even creative subjects might need to hit 10 or 12 students or more. When they don't, department sizes are reduced and those staff are used to teach things that aren't their specialism. There are a lot of classes being taught by non specialists in many schools in order to 'fully' use staff and ensure everyone is used to capacity rather than hiring further staff. On one level it makes sense, but any flexibility when numbers then change the following year is lost. Very 'tight' timetables and staffing mean cost per lesson per child is cheaper, but when it comes option choices far more children don't get what they would like and things which are less mainstream drop off the curriculum when a teacher leaves.

Many schools have most students taking fewer GCSEs now. On one level it's not a bad thing and if students have more time in Maths and English, more should pass those subjects. However, it's also a money saving exercise so schools can timetable more simply which means more cheaply.

State schools have to note down the 'price' per head of each timetabled lesson. When budgets are so tight, getting that orice down becomes more important than getting students into the subjects which suit them best.

What were the other options on the list from when she picked. When mine have picked there 4 columns and was about 6-8 options in each column. So it would be surprising if she can't do any of her top three from that column and got stuck with a non option. You need to asking that fair enough not enough picked that one but what happened to her 2nd,3rd choices. Spanish can not be the only option for that section of timetable else the whole year would be doing it, so what are the other choices. Just email in. If she's asks it will just go back and forth.

@JustAnotherOpinion21

We only had 8 people doing GCSE music and 2 doing AS level music, 1 doing A level. Our classes weren't cancelled.

We had three in our A-level Geography class (and there was only one in the equivalent Yr13 class). Not a snowball’s chance in hell that that would run today. School budgets are vastly reduced from what they were when I was a student, and that was still under Thatcher (just).

If she isn't doing a mfl this is probably why they are trying to get her to do Spanish rather than one of her reserve options. Despite what lots of posters on here say lots of schools still really push the ebacc on their more able students and they need a mfl.

Do you have information about the option blocks? If you do, you can look to see what is in the same option block as P&E.

I sympathise as RS was one of DD’s non negotiable s which she also did at A level.

Schools are never going to be able to offer everything an individual student wants. My dd was really disappointed she couldn’t do computer science for example.

So we made a list

A - non negotiable subjects (RS & Music)
B - preferred choices (Computer Science, Triple Science,)
C - Acceptable Choices - Geography, French, Drama, Double Science
D - No chance - Art, Food Tech, History

If A couldn’t happen & B had to happen we decided she would move school to somewhere that could accommodate it
B & C had to be compromised

It's understandable that sometimes it won't be possible to run a particular subject due to low numbers.
What is less clear is why this "random" subject that your dd hasn't chosen has been allocated instead.
At dds school there was space for a "reserve" subject on her option form, in case a higher preference was not available, and if a preference wasn't possible then staff spent time with pupils affected to find the best possible alternative options for them.

Dd had this issue. Was told she couldn’t do art as it clashed with product design and she’d have to do German instead. Again a specialist language school and she hadn’t picked a language which had caused a fuss from the teachers. And no they hadn’t released the option blocks.

So she started German, hated it, was doing badly and two terms into year 10 refused to go to anymore German lessons. And also realised at this point a boy in her form did art and product design and there wasn’t a clash. I politely kicked up a fuss and lo and behold she was then allowed to do art.....but missed two terms!

So do get her to check with friends that it definitely isn’t running. DD’s school 100% lied to me and her to try and force her to take a language

There will be a minimum group size to warrant any cost agreed in advance.

You may wish to discuss if the course is offered at other schools they work with and if there are any collaborative options.

Double check the spec for the course - a lot of school market RS as Philosophy and Ethics these days. It's the same course usually. It is actually a really interesting and useful subject and roughly a third each of religion (Christianity plus one other world religion ) ethics and phil. If she is really keen she could study in her own time and be entered as a private candidate.

This happened to me 30 years ago. I wanted to do two languages, french and welsh (as a foreign language). They couldn’t run both, as not enough pupils wanted to do those two languages. even though they could run french and German together. I didn’t want to do German.

So I did french, dropped welsh and did Computer Studies instead.

On the day of the exams, some pupils were sitting both the french and welsh GCSEs. Turns out that the welsh teacher was privately tutoring them in the evenings. I assume the school knew, as the pupils had been entered for the exam through the school. I wished I’d known that this was a possibility.

Could you look into whether private tutoring exists for the P&E course, and whether the school would allow that to stand as one of her GCSEs?

Aren’t specialist schools long gone now? I didn’t think anywhere specialised in mfl?

I think schools are too flexible and then end up disappointing pupils. My DDs has to do maths, English x 2, RE, a humanity, double or triple science, an art/tech, and a MFL. Then one or two additional choices so usually 9 or 10 GCSEs. It was a small school but it was made clear what was expected from the outset. Very few argued.