EPQ - is it worth it?

[AuntieUrsula]

DD2 has announced she isn't going to do an EPQ as she can't think of a topic she wants to do it on. I'm just concerned this might count against her when she applies to uni next term, especially as she wants to do a competitive subject (Law) and after all the recent disruption, uni application is likely to be a battlefield anyway!

The school have been pretty noncommital about how useful/necessary this is - they're very big on leaving everything up to the individual but I do think some guidance wouldn't come amiss sometimes!

Maybe use the Mumsnet search feature to look for previous threads about the EPQ (click 'title only' to get the most relevant results). There are lots.

My eldest is at a super-selective grammar school and they don't bother with it, but they do emphasise the alternative - lots of exploration of the subject they want to study, through reading, podcasts, online courses, essay competitions etc - and have a timetabled week at the end of year 12 when they can either do self-arranged work experience (mostly virtual this year), study, or do a short project. If they choose the project then there's an opportunity to present it, so it's like a mini EPQ without the E or the Q. 🙂. However they were told some projects might meet the criteria for an external award - from memory, a CASE Award, but I might have got that wrong. Their main objective is to have something unique and interesting to talk about in personal statements and interviews, rather than the accumulation of further UCAS points (which very academic students won't necessarily need, and very competitive courses won't look at).

You could look at some entry criteria for potential law courses to see if they recognise the EPQ.

I teach it. Initially all our y12s start it but we do lose some along the way. From my initial 30, 21 of my current y13s have submitted this year. I have read everything and am really impressed by the depth of their research and breadth of their interests.

Of those 21, they have all said how much it has helped in terms of planning work, researching, extended writing, deepening knowledge of niche areas, source evaluation and referencing, most of which they will need on their chosen university courses. My own DDs did it and agree with these too.

I disagree that competitive courses won't look at it. DD1's project was brought up in her (successful) NatSci interview at Cambridge and one of my y13s was asked a number of questions about his project in his Cambridge History interview, which resulted in an offer. Some institutions do lower offers based on A or A* in EPQ: Cardiff, Bath and Southampton spring to mind.

If the OP's DD can't think of a topic, why not look at a particular law and see how it has developed over the years or how something like sex discrimination is treated in different jurisdictions? The main thing to remember is that the actual dissertation or artefact is only worth 40% of the mark; the majority is for the planning, researching and evaluating, all of which is evidenced in the paperwork. If you want to PM me, I'll see if I can help but I am somewhat swamped with marking/assessment at the moment.

I disagree that competitive courses won't look at it. DD1's project was brought up in her (successful) NatSci interview at Cambridge and one of my y13s was asked a number of questions about his project in his Cambridge History interview

Of course, but they would have brought it up whether the project was done as an EPQ or not, and if they had spent the time doing something else equally relevant they would have brought that up instead.

My point is that the qualification in itself is not the important thing, unless they are applying for a course that uses UCAS points as an entry criteria.

DS chose not to do one. He knew what degree subject he wanted to study and ensured there were plenty of good universities who do not take an EPQ into account, so he wouldn't be disadvantaged. Plenty don't as they recognise not every school offers the opportunity.

I also think it depends how it will help with your next stage of education/work, if your DC is motivated and has managed to find a subject for it with adequate school support. I read somewhere that it takes 120 hours.
It shouldn’t get in the way of securing high A level subjects’ grades.

Dd1 has just submitted hers. She chose a topic that was relevant to all three of her A-levels so, depending on what she chooses to do at university she has the opportunity to talk about what she learnt in any interviews. Overall she enjoyed it, although she did find the lack of support from the school trying at times.
The most useful thing to come from it I think is she’s got a head start on understanding referencing which I never had before I hit university.

I think universities do like it in general, but it’s not going to form part of the standard 3 A level offer (except for those places that might offer an alternate tariff for a high grade EPQ).

I personally think it’s a really good way of developing independent learning skills which will form the basis of a university education. It is very good preparation in that regard.

I loved mine (going back a good few years now). I did law at UG and my EPQ was on a jurisprudential question around whether law should still be linked to Christian values I think. It linked with my Alevels (inc law and sociology) and I also did jurisprudence as a module at Uni. My offer wasn't dependent on it at all, but I do think it was good practice for me.

DD1 did one and found it stressful, but it did help her with her essay and research skills. DD2 wanted to do one to link up with her chosen course, but her health took a turn for a worse. Head teacher checked in with the unis she applies to and they all said that as long as she made her UCAS points, it didn't matter. So she's focused hard on her 3 A levels instead.

My ds didn't do it, and got offers from all five of his uni choices (four of which are RG).

I don't think its that important for securing a place at university. However, it teaches valuable skills such as referencing, drafting etc. With the reduction of subjects that have a coursework element, the opportunities to develop these skills are lacking.

I've mentored EPQ students for several years now and most students regard the experience as rewarding.

I agree with Malbec that any aspect of law would have been a great topic for an EPQ plus it demonstrates her interest in law. How about how countries we colonised and then "handed back" have UK laws as the basis for their legal system and then added their own laws afterwards?

Ds didn't do one but he was doing 4 A levels (further maths) and a STEM degree application so it wasn't needed. He had 4 uni offers for this September.

EPQ is a great way to learn research, planning etc. I would talk to her about the law. What else has she got to go on her personal statement about why she is choosing law?

@Time2Sigh
My point is that the qualification in itself is not the important thing, unless they are applying for a course that uses UCAS points as an entry criteria.
This isn’t true. Not only universities with Ucas points entry but a whole raft of university courses, including RG, offer reduced grades if a student has a grade A EPQ. That’s because it teaches very useful skills for most university courses. It’s not an easy option though and quite time consuming.
@AuntieUrsula look at a few potential courses that your DD fancies at possible universities and check if the grade requirements are reduced. This may help your DD make an informed decision as it’s a lot of work. Some students are better off using that time and effort on getting the best grades possible at A level.

@looptheloopinahulahoop

My ds didn't do it, and got offers from all five of his uni choices (four of which are RG).

Of course. It’s absolutely not ‘needed’. Nowhere is it a requirement. However, as others have said it 1) teaches incredibly useful skills 2) May reduce the university offer including RG uni 3) something to discuss on the PS & interviews

However, your DD needs to consider how detrimental it’ll be in time & effort away from her A level subject studies. Will she also need to study and practice the law entry exams? Some schools have the EPQ finished very early in yr12; others it encroaches into yr13. So the timings may need consideration too as she could have a lot in her plate!
It maybe that your DD has taken all this into account and therefore decided an EPQ is not for her.

@Time2Sigh my point is that they would not have done those projects had they not been completing the EPQ. DD1's was an artefact related to STEM but it had little relevance to her future study. She wrote 1 sentence about it in her personal statement yet was asked about it at Cambridge. The y13 I mentioned wrote his on a historical period not covered within his A level - he has to avoid dual accreditation - and relating to a completely different culture. Again, had he not completed the EP, he would not have written it.

If students are motivated to complete something beyond their courses, the EPQ offers them the chance to receive credit for that work.

I agree with Malbecfan and in particular there are unis that would be highly rated for law firms according to the Chambers List of preferred unis that would make reduced offers to students who achieve a minimu of an A at EPQ which means that she might be able to use a highly ranked uni with a dropped offer as an insurance.

If you're good at coursework and less good at exams it's probably a good option. However, you can't just write something - there's quite a process you have to go through (or at least you did at ds' sixth form).

Anyway, ultimately it's not needed but can be beneficial.

Futurelearn do a course on EPQs which may be of interest.