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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary School Appeal

41 replies

NynaevesSister · 04/05/2021 20:48

A very good friend was going through a really rough time last year, she was also ill - not bad, she didn't need to go to hospital but she was still poorly. On top of that she had taken on a child from her family in a foster situation who was having huge behavioral problems at school, and she found out that her youngest child (she has 4 boys) was diagnosed with developmental issues. And she was home schooling five boys in the middle of a pandemic. In the midst of all that she missed putting in her third child's secondary application form.

As a result he has been assigned a school that's a very unpopular school. But more important than that, it is not the same school his older brothers attend. Her partner is no longer with them, and his eldest brother (who will be attending sixth form there) is very much the role model for the younger siblings. In terms of mentoring and support, it's really crucial that he goes to school with his siblings. However, it is a hugely popular school, one of the more oversubscribed in London and it is small. Even though he will be high on the criteria list as he has a sibling in year 10, it's possible there won't be enough movement by September.

Thank you for reading this far! She is really overwhelmed by everything. Her appeal is next week. I have two questions, and they are quite broad. 1. what can she expect to happen in the appeal and 2. how should she present her case?

OP posts:
formynexttrick · 04/05/2021 22:39

I'm not sure if there's much she can do, sorry :(

To succeed at appeal, you need to either prove they made a mistake in the application process, or show that there is a solid reason that this school provides something for your child that the others don't.

And that thing will need to be based on something really serious like SEN, not just that it would be better for the child - as if it's a good school, it'd be better for most DC!

She should look at the school's application process in detail in case she spots anything that might help, and go and hope for the best, it can't hurt.

But her expectations should be pretty low. My heart goes out to your friend, she must be kicking herself. But I'm afraid I can't see anything in your OP that sounds like the basis for an appeal.

NynaevesSister · 05/05/2021 08:51

What will happen at the appeal? What is the process?

OP posts:
LIZS · 05/05/2021 08:53

Is the dc on waiting list? The LA will send details of the process and relevant dates if she asks.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 05/05/2021 09:02

The first part will usually be a group session where the school explain why they can't take any more pupils. The second part will be an individual session with your friend, the panel and a representative from the school or council to look at your friend's case. She should have submitted a case and evidence by now. The panel will let her explain her case and ask her questions. They'll make their decision after she's finished and left. She'll get the result a day or two later.
It's more like an OK job interview than a court.

1starwars2 · 05/05/2021 09:07

We went to appeal. It's horrible hearing how the school you are desperate to get into don't want your child (because they are full) and won't have an extra child. And then the local authority representative explains how the school you have a place at will meet their needs.
We made a case with regard to sen, but was unsuccessful.
It was very time consuming and ultimately a waste of time.
Unless she has grounds for an appeal I am not sure there's any point.

TeenMinusTests · 05/05/2021 10:17

To succeed at appeal, you need to either prove they made a mistake in the application process, or show that there is a solid reason that this school provides something for your child that the others don't.

True

And that thing will need to be based on something really serious like SEN, not just that it would be better for the child - as if it's a good school, it'd be better for most DC!

Not true.

She needs to show the disadvantage to her child by not attending is greater than the disadvantage to the school by admitting them.

Family situation may help (and might tug on heartstrings) but also things like school orchestras for musical child, other extra curricular where child has proven interest, specific pastoral care where clear need shown etc.

formynexttrick · 05/05/2021 10:43

If her appeal is next week, she needs to get on to the council ASAP to ask about the procedure. I wonder if she's missed the communications on this also.

Because, if she needs to submit something in advance, she surely should have heard about it by now.

prh47bridge · 05/05/2021 18:04

To win, she needs to show that the disadvantage to her son from not attending outweighs any problems the school will face through having to cope with an extra pupil. Wanting to go to the same school as his siblings is highly unlikely to be a winning case. She needs to look at what this school offers (subjects, extra-curricular activities and so on) that is not available at the allocated school and is particularly relevant to her son, then build her case around those.

If she needs to change her case or submit further evidence, she needs to do that quickly. The panel won't be happy if she turns up on the day with different arguments and new evidence.

Assuming this is being heard as a single appeal and not grouped with others, the process is normally:

  • you go into the appeal room with the admission authority's representative (who will present the case to refuse admission)
  • introductions
  • the case to refuse admission is represented
  • you and the appeal panel question the admission authority's representative
  • you present your case
  • the appeal panel and the admission authority's representative question you
  • the admission authority's representative sums up
  • you sum up
  • you and the admission authority's representative leave the room

It is unlikely your friend will be told the outcome on the day. She should hear a few days later.

Wearywithteens · 05/05/2021 18:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Clawdine · 06/05/2021 17:27

I am a panellist and chair. I have occasionally seen appeals like this and they are still difficult to win. ( It is not in my area as our appeals are in June. )

Your friend needs to provide documentary evidence of all the issues you describe. She needs to convince the panel that in her circumstances the missed deadline was perfectly understandable. It’s quite a high bar but not impossible.

I have seen two cases in this scenario win their appeals, but in both, the families lived in much more difficult circumstances than those you describe.

Most importantly, she needs to state, why that school, and that school alone will suit her son. Perhaps mention the sibling support and role modelling, anything that school offers which others locally do not? It is not enough to say the offered school is not good enough. Why does he particularly need sibling support? Any documentary evidence here will help.

Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 07:24

@NynaevesSister has she applied to the school for Exceptional Circumstances consideration? I'm a school governor and we would almost certainly give a sympathetic hearing to these circumstances. EC has higher priority in our oversubscription criteria than sibling status, so while it wouldn't free up a place, it might help to put them at the top of the waiting list. Then all you would need is for one if the students who already has an offer to drop out, which is very common in London, even for the most popular schools.

Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 07:27

which is very common in London, even for the most popular schools.

... because families are often very mobile and may move home or decide to accept a private school offer.

Lougle · 10/05/2021 07:39

The difficulty that your friend will have is that the whole nation has been home schooling in a pandemic. So everyone's circumstances have been strained. That makes the bar much higher at appeal. So, whilst in other years those circumstances may have made a panel think 'rough time!', this year they will hear story after story of just how hard it has been.

I think most panels will take the view that at Secondary school, children of different age groups are unlikely to see each other through the school day. Even more so given that the eldest child will be in sixth form. The role modelling can take place before and after school.

Your friend really needs to chip away at the school's argument by finding things that the preferred school has that the offered school doesn't. By doing that, she may be able to push her argument over the line. She only has to make the panel find 51% in her favour - it's a balance.

Having said all of that, once the panel has a list of appellants that have proven their case, if there are more children than the school can reasonably add to the roll, then the panel will have to decide who has the strongest case, so the stronger her arguments, and evidence, the more chance of winning.

NynaevesSister · 10/05/2021 08:24

Thank you everyone. Some good advice in there. The appeal is being held online to add an extra layer of difficulty.

OP posts:
Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 09:07

I suggest she do the EC application asap. She may get a place well before the Appeal date and avoid having to go through the experience. If the EC case is rejected, they would need to give a reason, so even that would help her with the appeal if she could bridge the gap in the meantime. The most common reason why we turn down EC applications is because they are not backed up by a letter from a suitable professional. In these circumstances a letter from a primary school teacher who knows the family would be ideal. Note that they will need to name the school ...i.e. say "Fred needs to go to School X because ..." rather than "Fred needs to go to a small school because ...".

admission · 10/05/2021 11:45

Tumpleton, I am not sure why you believe that OP can apply for EC now. Firstly not all admission authorities have an EC admission criteria, so that needs checking. Secondly the parent has effectively applied late and been allocated a place by the LA, so the only way forward is to go to appeal for the preferred school. The LA will not allow a re-application for the school that OP wants based on a criteria which might not even exist for this particular admission authority.

Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 12:23

I'm a governor at an academy and our LA admissions team has, in the past, advised parents to submit exceptional circumstances applications to our school after National Offer Day. We have therefore considered them.

prh47bridge · 10/05/2021 12:58

Assuming you have an admission category for exceptional circumstances, (as admission says, many schools don't), applying under that category would, if accepted, affect the child's place on the waiting list. They will not get a place automatically just because they qualify for consideration under this category.

As admission says, the way forward for the OP is to appeal.

Wearywithteens · 10/05/2021 13:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

PatriciaHolm · 10/05/2021 14:51

If a school has an explicit Exceptional Circumstances criteria in their admissions criteria, parents can request to be considered under it at any time, by supplying the required documentation. If successful, it would result in their child moving up the waiting list - this is all entirely legal.

However, as PRH says, this will not get a place when one does not exist; it merely improves the position on the waiting list.

If they don't have such criteria, then it's not relevant. They can't just ask for special consideration.

Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 16:14

@Wearywithteens

Tumpleton - I’m amazed that that is allowed. It does not seem to adhere to the remit of being ‘clear, objective and transparent’ as required by admission law.
See paragraph 1.16 of the national schools admissions code. All schools in my LA have this criterion, as do all the schools in our MAT which is geographically dispersed, so I admit I didn't consider that might not be the case elsewhere ... but I would like to think that most schools would have it.
Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 16:17

We call it "exceptional circumstances" as a shorthand but a more accurate description is "exceptional medical or social need".

UpTheJunktion · 10/05/2021 16:29

Is she now 100% certain that the child is in the waiting list for the school and in the right category, I.e sibling?

She should be at the top of the list if there is sibling priority, unless a Looked After child or a child with an EHC plan or other higher priority applicant also puts in for a late application.

Get her to go through all her child’s interests and talents and look at ways they would be supported at the preferred school but not at the allocated school.

If she loses her appeal, it has no bearing in her waiting list chances, so make sure she stays in the waiting list, and in the sibling category.

Wearywithteens · 10/05/2021 16:49

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Tumpleton · 10/05/2021 19:00

@Wearywithteens

“See paragraph 1.16 of the national schools admissions code.”

It doesn’t say ‘bung in evidence to the governing body of EC after offer day to see if you can move up the waiting list’ which is what you’re saying your LA ‘advises’. I presume you just mean that people chance their arm by submitting something to be regarded as a late application under EC? In which case applicants can do that at any time and only if EC are part of the criteria.

It’s by no means universal btw. In my mind having EC in a policy (without proper definition) almost negates the whole point of ‘objective’ criteria and appeal panels!

It"s not a new application. She's already applied. It's just additional information which, if the circumstances are accepted, would put her in a higher admissions category. As PatriciaHolm said up thread, it's perfectly fine to do this at any time in the process. The reason it sometimes happens after Offer Day is because that's when people phone up the admissions team to seek their advice. I'd much rather people with a strong case for medical or social circumstances used that route than go through the whole appeals process.