Year 7 targets

[seeker]

We've just had a letter home with dd's taget levels for the end of year 7.I realize that I don't know really what's expected of them at this stage and I wonder if anyone else has had a similar letter and would like to "share"! A sample of dd's to start with.
4b for ITC,
6c for Design,
6c for science,
6a for maths,
3a foe Spanish,
5a for English.
Is this sort of "on course'? Paretn's evening on Thursday so all contributions gratefully received!

I expect it will be based on her Y6 SATs results as well as more recent (and perhaps informal) assesments.

I think asking what is expected is a good place to start. In primary schools children are 'expected' to increase by 2 levels each year, so from a 4c - 4a, 4b - 5c or 4a - 5b, , for example (hope that makes sense)

I think I would want to know why ICT is only a 4 and what you can do to help her with it? It might just be lack of experience & is probably nothing to worry about, but worth asking. Same for spanish but, if she is new to it, that is probably why.

hth

Thank you! I was puzzled but the ITC too. The Spanish is the "class" target because they only started this year. Same for German.
The letter has her current level too - which is in line with her SATS in the subjects they did SATS in.
Quite a few of her targets seem to be expecting more than 2 sub-levels. In maths, for example, she is currently 5c, and is expected to reach 6a by the end of the year! MAybe that's normal at Secondary?

I have a dd in year 7 and we don't get anything like that, so I can't comment on whether it's typical or not but as 6 is the target level for year 9 she sounds well on course. It seems like a good idea to me to have targets - and specific ones for the different subjects too. I would have thought 5c to 6a in maths was a big ask though - I'd definitely enquire about how that arose - maybe they've spotted some yet hidden maths potential or maybe the 6a is a typo and should be 5a?

MIght be interesting to ask generally about how they set the targets.

As an English teacher I'd say level 5 at the end of KS3 (year 9) would be good so she's doing well in English

does your letter say if these targets are for the end of KS3 (yr 9) or for the end of Yr 7?

in MFL, 3a for Spanish would be a good median-ish grade for the end of yr 7. Top set students would be able to achieve a 4a and lower set child would be getting a 2a or a bit less. by the end of Yr9, a child with a 3a at the end of Yr 7 ought to be able to achieve a 5a and the end of yr9, IME.

just read your post at 6:02, must say we don't do a 'class' target in MFL, even at yr 7. we use the MidYIS and KS2 SATS results as a guide. we can still get it wrong with a few kids, but not as wrong as setting a 'whole class' target.

in my last post, i asked the initial question because with giving 6's for Maths and Science, they don't 'fit' in with the profile for Spanish. really bright kids will be getting 6a's and 7's at the end of Yr9, not yr 7 but i don't teach maths.

This is for the end of year 7 - and I wondered whether the maths was a typo too - as any hidden maths potential has been EXTREMELY well hidden in primary scchool! As for the MFLs - apparently dd was told that they are all expected to get a 3A in Spanish and German - that's why it's the "class target" Their form tutor said that that wasn't to stop them trying for higher though!

she's also expected to go from a 3a to a 5c in history between now and June. Mind you, I was pretty surprised by the 3a - I thought she was doing better than that.

While I'm on the subject, how can you get a 2(which is good) for effort in something and a 1(which is excellent) for work quality. Does that mean that they think she should work harder and do better than excellent??

It's a mine field, I tell you. I have just worked out how to interpret primary school reports with their estate agent language "X is an enthusiastic child who expresses his opinions clearly and confidently"="X is a cheeky brat who never shuts up"

I don't think the MFL levels compare directly with the others at this stage as they've only just started.

My dcs always aspire to have high achievement grades and low effort grades as they think this means they are naturally brilliant without even trying . This is in spite of me telling them in my view it's the effort grade that's most important. So far, the reasons given to me by teachers for low effort grades have been:

1)If you forget to hand homework in or do the wrong work or your book is messy.
2)The work given is too easy for them - effectively the teacher is saying they're not challenging them here.

I expect another would be if you muck around a lot in class, but fortunately we've not had that one.

On one occasion circumstantial evidence pointed to the RE teacher giving low effort grades to everyone who declared their religion as anything other than Christian - with the lowest one going to the lad who said he was a 'Jedi'!

SATs and Midyis do not compare directly with MFL but they are a helluva good indication of potential, strengths, learning styles and personal organisational skills. I still can't think highly of setting a blanket mark for an entire class. It can be entirely demoralising for students who cannot make that grade - some kids will barely achieve a good level 2 by the end of yr 7 through no fault of their own. at the other end of the spectrum it can be used as as excuse for G&T kids to underachieve.

seeker, in reference to your last post, I would ask the school to give you your child's specific scores on KS2 SATS and MidYis scores. I'll have a look at them if you want. they can tell you a lot about a child.

I'd ask what the average expectations are. For some subjects, and I think ICT is one of them, the target always looks low in comparison to maths, English and science. Is it her first year of Spanish? If so, that would explain the blanket class target since the teacher doesn't yet know their potential. If she achieves 6a in Maths by the end of year 7, then she is doing very well. I'm fairly sure 5a for English would be close to what is expected, as is 6c for science.

spacemanspiff, do you really think it's a good idea to see MidYis scores? I declined to see my dcs as they're only supposed to be accurate across a cohort not for individuals. I also don't know their SATs breakdowns. Should I?

you can get copies of both and they are both useful in analysing ability, potential and achievement. ask for them. i am a regular btw.

to add: schools will have the individual SATS and midyis results as well as the whole cohort profiles to analyse for their own internal auditing. you are entitled to see your child's individual scores for these.

I know I could - the school actually sent a letter saying we could have if we wanted to know (Midyis that is not SATs, but I'm sure they'd give the SATs breakdown too if asked), but the tone seemed to be discouraging and people on here at the time seemd to think it might set the wrong expectations given their accuracy. I also feel that if the kids ever ask me I can honestly say I don't know and it avoids the whole comparing kids thing which I alsways try very hard not to. It's just if there is a benefit in knowing...

The thing is, what actually is the benefit? I'm thinking maybe I should ask to see at least dd's as she's very asynchronous.

i think you should ask for both scores. if you want me to provide an analysis of them, I am happy to do that, if you CAT me. I am kiskidee, a languages teacher (and form teacher). I think it can provide very helpful information about your child. In fact, our previous ofsted inspection in 2005 pointed out that one of our school's weaknesses was that we were not using data effectively to set targets for the children. we had an inspection last week and this was most definately the area which they wanted to see an improvement in.

as an example: i have a boy in set 2 of yr 8 who, from his SATs/midyis, should be near the top of the class. in practice he is near the bottom as his attitude to work and me has been deteriorating. he is actually performing worse now than he was in Yr 7. last friday, I pulled him up on it by showing him his data and, hiding the names of other the other students, showed him how many others were, by SATS and Midyis results, not as able as he is but were consistently are outperforming him. I made him know in no uncertain terms that by December, I expect a vast improvement in his attitude to work or a very stern letter will be sent home.

Within 3 days, there has been a massive change.

i don't think it has anything with comparing one kid against the other, i think it is a tool for a kid to know his abilities and to strive to fulfill them.

Thanks, I'll have a think and probably do that. It will take a while for the school to sort themselves out I'm sure though. I know what you mean about comparing though - but I'm not sure I'd want to actually share the info with either child.

it is something for you to know and as time goes on you may find ways to inform yourself in a conversation you may have with the school or with the child - without making direct reference to it to the child possibly.

in the middle of yr 8, we have a student review day whereby the parent(s) and child have a 15 min appt with the form tutor and we discuss progress so far and use data like to inform the student and parent what it means and how they are progressing in accordance with tens of thousands of kids their own age. the thing that is good about midyis is that it doesn't test what they are learning in school. it helps to define their natural strengths and weaknesses so no one can cram for it like they may have for sats. It can point out where a child may be cruising but may have real talent, for example. it is also national so the numbers are crunched on a national scale and the force of numbers makes it a pretty accurate prediction of abilities.

It's the accuracy that worries me - I'd hate for a child to be pigeon-holed as good at this, less good at that based on results of a short battery of tests that might well be wrong. If they believe it then it can become self-fulfilling when they may just have been distracted at the time. The school told us that while the tests had proved very accurate for the cohort, they were less reliable at the individual level.

i can see that you want to err on the side of caution. which is one reason to wait and see how a child stands up to the predictions in a year or a year and a half's time. a good teacher/parent will broach the issue sensitively with a child. anyone can take a tool and misuse it. its not a reason for banning the tool.

i kinda can't see what the school is getting at. surely if it is way off wrong for most people, it will be way off wrong for the cohort too. it is most likely right, give or take a few points for most people - and that would be more likely say the difference between a 5a and a 5c or say a 5b and a 4a later on. Not waaayyy off.

the force of numbers, like most statistics is what has made these statistics pretty reliable for most people.

i am not really trying to persuade you to do one thing or the other with this information. just providing an alternative view which you may not have heard of in this way yet. I hope you find it useful whichever you decide to do.

Do most Year 7's have these targets then ? I have not had anything from ds's school.
His primary school only told us the sats scores as 4 or 5's not broken down into 5a, 5b,5c etc. So I would not even know how many levels they are expecting him to improve by anyway.

PopsP

Ds has only been given a target for science and I don't thing that is for the year.
As for Sats DS's primary school didn't give out scores other than level 5 ,4 etc. Ds asked his teacher how much he scored for science,so she rang us and told us all the scores except for maths.

I know the actually scores were passed onto his secondary school, but from what I can gather not all the secondary schools asked for actually scores, just the levels.