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Secondary education

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Covid 19 - Govt plans to test need to self-isolate at preselected schools ( state &indie)

31 replies

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 17:49

So the Govt plans to experiment on our kids . Some schools ( state and indies )have been pre selected to test whether they can use daily lateral flows instead of self isolation . If this works I can absolutely see the merits of keeping as many kids in school as possible - but if it fails since this is testing transmission then lots of kids will get Covid as a result . Obviously it is well documented that most kids get mild or asymptomatic Covid but I know a 17 year old with no pre existing who has been referred to a lung clinic because of long Covid . Also CEV and CV kids haven’t been vaccinated ( and research shows that asthmatics are particularly susceptible to long Covid) . Also many young teachers haven’t been vaccinated yet either . This doesn’t sit comfortably with me that many people could be out at risk I don’t think schools have a choice on this and as far as I can see parents aren’t being asked for consent . What does any one else think ? The list of schools can be viewed at nasuwt.org.uk/uploads. None of my schools have been picked but at least one from your area will have been

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YellowGlasses · 22/04/2021 17:51

I think lateral tests are increasingly showing false positives. I’m not sure what the answer is though.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/rapid-covid-testing-in-england-may-be-scaled-back-over-false-positives

Seeline · 22/04/2021 17:59

@Thisisconfusing could you post a link to the list of participating schools please - the site you refer to comes up as not found

SoupDragon · 22/04/2021 18:12

Google isn't helping either. The only mention I found was from March when they paused the idea.

The DfE did also intend to roll out daily lateral flow tests (LFTs) for secondary pupils and staff who are close contacts of confirmed cases for seven days, as an alternative to self-isolation, but this has been paused.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:14

@YellowGlasses yes where cases are low . We are a London Borough which border surge areas - so it just seems a bit risky to me for the schools involved in those areas.

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:18

I picked it up on Twitter from a Doctor who has an interest in Long Covid . She thinks it is a bad idea . Google Dr Zubeida Haque Twitter feed. I can’t seem to attach the list . I will keep trying

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:23

@SoupDragon in the Twitter feed there is some suggestion that this has already started . In the list which I’m still trying to attach some schools are phase 1 schools . Some are controls.

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Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 18:23

I've copied and pasted as has school details in. My school is again doing this, it was involved in a pilot before Xmas where they were tested all negative and because of the negative they encouraged a child who was unwell (but not covid symptoms) to stay in school, resulting in a positive covid test, 60 kids testing positive and four parental hospitalisation and one death. Pre Xmas these kids didn't even have to isolate after school, lord knows how many cases were connected, as they all continued to go to the sweet shop and sports training etc however for two months after the school outbreak we were the highest area in our county.

Dear Parent/Carer

As a school we will be taking part in a new study called Daily Contact Testing which is being led by the Department for Health and Social Care through NHS Test and Trace. This letter will explain more about this study but it is important to emphasise that your child’s experience will remain the same as it has been since we embarked on in-school testing in the autumn term. As with our current pilot if they are identified as a close contact with a positive case, they can remain in school, through taking part in repeat testing over a period of seven days. This is only possible through being part of this study. However, as this is a new study we will require fresh consent.

WHY IS THIS STUDY IMPORTANT?

Normally, when we identify a person has COVID-19, the whole group of people that have been in close contact with that person have to go home and self-isolate for 10 days to stop the virus spreading. This can mean lots of people being absent from school or college, but it is important to do this to protect the other people in school and at home.

This study will seek to understand if students and staff can continue to come to school safely after they have been in close contact with a person who is positive for COVID-19, by testing them on school days for 7 consecutive days with Antigen Lateral Flow Device (LFD) rapid tests. If a student does not have a positive result, they will be able to take part in school activities. Students will need to self-isolate at home in the evenings, weekends and holidays.

IS TAKING PART VOLUNTARY?

Participation in the study is completely voluntary. If students do not wish to take part they must continue to follow national guidance and self-isolate if identified as a contact. The school will continue to support students self-isolating at home. If a student chooses to take part in the study, they can change their mind at any time. If they stop taking the tests they must self-isolate for 10 days after contact with the person who tested positive for COVID-19.

WHAT DOES THE STUDY INVOLVE?

When a positive case is identified in school, for example through the twice weekly school testing, the school will be asked to tell the research team those individuals who are taking part in the study that had been in close contact.

Students and staff identified as a close contact who are taking part in the study will be asked to perform COVID-19 tests on school days for 7 consecutive days:

• A rapid test at school every day – this will involve rubbing of a soft cotton bud on the inside of the nostrils to test for the virus. The result is available within 30 minutes.

• A Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test on day 2 and 7 – two PCR tests for the study will be taken on school site. These are similar to the tests performed at the NHS Test and Trace sites. A swab is taken from the nose and throat to be processed in a laboratory. Results of these tests will therefore not be available until after the 7-day testing period.

Unless the rapid test is positive, students and staff will be able to take part in school activities. They will need to continue self-isolating when not at school. Rapid test results will be given verbally by the school if a positive result is found.

Students and staff will be asked to complete a brief survey on day 7 and may be invited to speak to a researcher about daily testing. However, it is not compulsory to complete this survey.

WHAT HAPPENS ON NON-SCHOOL DAYS?

On non-school days students and staff will not receive a rapid test and will be required to self-isolate if identified as a close contact. If the last day of daily testing falls on a Saturday or Sunday, a final rapid test will be needed to complete daily testing on Monday.

WHAT IF A RAPID TEST IS POSITIVE DURING THE STUDY?

A positive result with the rapid test means the individual must follow the national guidance and self-isolate for 10 days.

If someone who is taking the daily tests comes into contact with someone who tests positive for COVID-19 again, the tests on school days for 7 consecutive days will restart. If they do not want to do the tests again they can self-isolate as per national guidance.

If a student receives a positive test at any point during the study they will be asked to take an additional PCR test for the study.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE RAPID TEST IS NOT POSITIVE DURING THE STUDY?

This means students can continue with normal school activities until the next test is due. Students will need to continue self-isolating when not at school.

Sometimes, a student could still have COVID-19, even if they do not have a positive test result. This means everyone should continue to wash their hands, cover their face and maintain social distancing as normal.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS AND RISKS OF TAKING PART?

As this is a new study and has not been done in school before there is an additional risk to taking part as we cannot know exactly what the impact will be. Sometimes a person may still have the virus, even if they do not have a positive test result. However, it is thought they are less likely to spread COVID-19, as they either do not have the virus or have a very low level of virus. It is very important that the national guidance to stop the virus spreading (including social distancing, hand washing, using face coverings) is followed at all times.

Consideration should be given to how taking part in the study may affect the other people in your house or people you see regularly. For example, if you live with another person who has health problems you may decide you would prefer to self-isolate rather than continue attending school/college. This is because the rapid test is best at identifying those who are infectious and most at risk of transmission but there may still be some individuals who have the virus and are not detected by the test.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:25

I am concerned because my 17 yo is asthmatic but because they changed the definition of a severe asthmatic from the NHS one to the JCVI cobbled together one she hasn’t been vaccinated yet asthmatics are very vulnerable to Long Covid . Her school hasn’t been picked but there will be others out there who will potentially be at risk .

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MarshaBradyo · 22/04/2021 18:26

and research shows that asthmatics are particularly susceptible to long Covid

Op can you link to this? Thanks

Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 18:26

The use of a PCR is definitely better than the autumn reliance on LF, but if kids are in school I don't believe they will isolate out of school. Also it doesn't cover the fact that I don't consent for my daughter to be in close contact with someone who should be in isolation.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:34

@Waveifyouknowme. So someone died as a result ????
the letter you were sent makes it sound so innocuous ? But it isn’t voluntary because if you go into school you are rubbing shoulders with those who are participating . If they have had contact with a Covid case your lot is already with them . If a child has a vulnerable person at home them choosing to self isolate rather than go into school won’t help their vulnerable relative if they develop Covid . Am I missing something here ???

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:43

@MarshaBradyo it was work done by Kings college I will need to find the link . In autumn last year .
What age is your child . Unders 16s can’t be vaccinated at the moment ( that would be a whole separate thread )

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Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 18:43

Her school hasn’t been picked but there will be others out there who will potentially be at risk and we can't consent to this additional risk.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:44

@Waveifyouknowme this is even more awful than I thought when I first saw the piece on Twitter .

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:47

@Waveifyouknowme So some schools have volunteered - the list does reference volunteers but I think some schools have been selected from what Dr Huque was saying . Maybe schools blindly signed up for the greater good without realising what the risks were ?

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Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 18:47

[quote Thisisconfusing]@Waveifyouknowme. So someone died as a result ????
the letter you were sent makes it sound so innocuous ? But it isn’t voluntary because if you go into school you are rubbing shoulders with those who are participating . If they have had contact with a Covid case your lot is already with them . If a child has a vulnerable person at home them choosing to self isolate rather than go into school won’t help their vulnerable relative if they develop Covid . Am I missing something here ???[/quote]
There's no proof though is there. I know the family and they would be happy with me posting because they are very vocal about it. The argument is they could have caught it from the shopping delivery, the fact that they were WFH and being careful and the only known contact with any cases came from school is apparently conjecture.

You latter point is exactly correct. I have no choice , I do not consent to my child sitting with close contacts of a covid positive person. But apparently my choice is worthless, the only choice I have is to de register which is not a choice.

twinkletoesimnot · 22/04/2021 18:48

The thing is - you can say that you won't participate but that doesn't stop others who should be isolating carrying on as usual.

As a teacher (as yet unvaccinated) I would also be very unhappy about this.

Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 18:50

[quote Thisisconfusing]@Waveifyouknowme So some schools have volunteered - the list does reference volunteers but I think some schools have been selected from what Dr Huque was saying . Maybe schools blindly signed up for the greater good without realising what the risks were ?[/quote]
Or signed up for league table results? Isolation is incredibly damaging for children especially when their peers are in class, results will drop. I believe this has a big influence

megletthesecond · 22/04/2021 18:54

DD's school are planning to do this. I'm not sure I'm happy about it.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 18:56

@Waveifyouknowme. I am genuinely staggered . What an awful situation for that family to be in 💐 this should never have happened. My sincere condolences.

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 19:02

@megletthesecond.
I think all of us appreciate any efforts to keep the kids in school but I do not think this is the right approach . When I picked this up on Twitter I thought that it was something about to happen . My schools aren’t on that list but I was uncomfortable with the idea . I didn’t realise that this had already been going on . I realise I might have made this super stressful for those in your situation but I’m flabbergasted that I had heard nothing about it. The doctor who raised it is worried that there will be a tsunami of long Covid cases but @Waveifyouknowme experience shows that it could be worse . I’m not sure what the answer is . Thee are other experiments going on too Eg with live events but at least the ticket holders can assess their own personal risk and by going give consent

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Waveifyouknowme · 22/04/2021 19:18

I’m not sure what the answer is . Thee are other experiments going on too Eg with live events but at least the ticket holders can assess their own personal risk and by going give consent

And thats it completely. I agree with experiments if everyone is signed up for it. My eldest is at uni and would happily dance through any hoop to go to a festival, if full of consenting adults I completely agree. But to force children, who are classed as unable to consent and not allow their parents to do so is wrong.

gsha · 22/04/2021 19:30

I hadn't heard about this but I found this article about it
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/parents-back-daily-covid-testing-20298974

I do agree with trying this as otherwise I don't see how we are going to get back to properly educating children. I would be happy if any of my children's schools joined this study. My secondary school daughter is already doing 2 lateral flow tests a week which I also agree with and I think the twice weekly lateral flows should also be introduced for older primary children eg year 5 upwards.

Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 20:04

@gsha all secondary schools pupils and their adult household should be doing LFT. I agree about older primary school kids.
I guess anyone who has already had COVID , feels invincible in whatever way, doesn’t have a higher risk child might agree with you. But for those who don’t consent you effectively consent by turning up to school - you can’t opt out of being in a classroom with kids whose parents are happy with the risk .
We are in London and I can say way more kids were affected in the second wave than the first and before Christmas our cases exploded because they all took it home. Not every adult has been vaccinated and some could get very sick . No figures for long covid in young . I know several people with it and I would prefer my child not to miss any more school or have their future blighted by long Covid. The doctor who raised in on Twitter is a long Covid specialist and thinks it’s morally wrong to take the risk .

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Thisisconfusing · 22/04/2021 20:06

Also how can you ensure that those that still go to school won’t go anywhere else . In London most have to travel on public transport to get to school . And many will also take the view that if they are at school it really won’t do any harm to nip to the shop, go to footie training etc .

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