Thomas Tallis or Harris Academy Greenwich?

[bananananadakrie]

We'll be applying for secondary schools this autumn for DS. We live in the general area of these schools now, but are looking to move to a bigger home which would give us the option to try and get more solidly into the catchment of one of them. For various reasons we don't want to move away from the Kidbrooke/ Lee/ Eltham area.

The other options - private or grammar - aren't really options for us, so would really love to hear any experiences that people could share of either of these schools? Most families we know locally have younger children and so no luck there. No open days happened due to Covid, so not had a chance to do more than look at their websites.

Harris is much better on paper in terms of results, but I like the feel of Tallis from their website - it seems the size creates a lot of opportunity to explore different interests and might be better for less sporty children. Would really appreciate any insights from anyone with experience of either.

Hello.
I have friends who have children in both schools. They are probably the two most different schools you could choose in Greenwich in terms of ethos! As I'm sure you know, both are very oversubscribed. You will need to do your research very carefully about catchment areas. I believe the Harris school has a catchment of around 1.3miles. I've heard that house prices around Tallis have shot up in recent years - as you're probably discovering!

Also as I'm sure you know, Harris has a 'fair banding' criteria so your DS will need to sit a banding assessment in Sept/Oct and that will also contribute to the selection process.

Harris is well known locally for being pretty strict in terms of things like uniform - my friend's DS got a detention recently for having the top button of his shirt undone as he was hot. Tallis is at the other end and DC can wear literally any shoes they like - another friend's DS wears green Converse! I guess it's a personal preference as to which approach you prefer. I know parents who shudder at the idea of a secondary school uniform with no blazer/tie (Tallis).

In terms of the ethos, I've heard that Tallis's approach is more 'college-like'. The school is well known in the area for having outstanding pastoral care. The school has special provision for both those with hearing impairments and also autism so it's highly regarded in terms of inclusion and support for those with additional needs.
It is known for being a liberal, arts based school with a strong music and art offering. I know that the head teacher is very well regarded and is passionate about a proper 'comprehensive' approach to educating young people. I've also heard that the staff tend to stay for a long time which is obviously quite telling.

As you say though, Harris without question has the better results 'on paper'. For that reason, I believe it's the most over subscribed school in the area. It really depends on what sort of school setting you think your DS will flourish in.

Harris is a slightly smaller school and I think has a longer day which may suit working parents? Tallis is a very large school (I think around 2,000 - including sixth form). Tallis sixth form is currently outstanding and I've heard that it has sent several students to Oxbridge recently.

Have you had a look at Leigh Academy Blackheath? It may be a bit too far out for you though. I know several parents with DC there at the moment and they all seem pretty happy. Again, it's becoming very oversubscribed - although I think that's probably true for almost every Greenwich secondary these days!

Good luck!

Thank you so much @toomanyminifigs! That is way more than I was expecting and really helpful. Your reply pretty much confirms what I was thinking - Harris comes across as very formal and strict versus Tallis. My inclination is more towards somewhere like Tallis to be honest, but both schools do seem good in different ways. It'll probably come down to what we can get to be honest, as there isn't a ton of houses in our price bracket. Leigh does look great, and would have been a favourite if location was completely open. Might well put it down as a long shot, but realistically we wont get close enough.

I'm put off by Harris Academies as they are run as a business, IMO not pupil centred at all.

Thanks @thiswaythat. That is an interesting point that I hadn't really considered.

Oh my goodness

Wow. Thanks for being so honest @violetindigoblue.

Blimey, that's a damning indictment on Tallis!

I think you should check out Leigh Academy.

Tallis is a popular school locally. The Greenwich interactive offers map shows that it has one of the smallest home to school distance of the borough's secondary schools (not including Harris as the banding tests skews things; the very highest and very lowest performers live very close to the school).

I have never taught at Tallis as I'm a primary teacher and my DC don't go there because we don't live close enough to it although at least half of their primary classmates go there, as do a significant proportion of my friends' DCs. It's not perfect - no school is - but the anarchy described by @VioletIndigoblue doesn't represent the experience of the teens I know there. Its reputation locally is of being an arty, liberal school and the casual approach to uniform feeds this, especially when compared to local academies that have gone all out on blazers with piping, branded items galore and regulation school bags. I know students at Tallis who've been given access to extraordinary extracurricular and work experience opportunities, others who've turned down scholarships at local independent schools in favour of Tallis and plenty who've chosen the sixth form there over other high-achieving secondaries. I've heard some less than glowing reviews of the school's approach to supporting dyslexic students and am aware that some parents were underwhelmed by the school's lockdown provision but in general, the headteacher is well thought of amongst parents and the students are happy.

What about St Paul's Academy Op? Is that close to you?

My kids are at Harris Greenwich - we have been very happy with pastoral care, education and discipline. Responsive, engaged and friendly teachers, Kids are happy and calm despite staring in the middle of the pandemic. Have experience of another (Ill fated ) Greenwich school -this is completely different.

Thanks so much again everyone!

@SE13Mummy thank you, good to hear a different perspective.

@lightsabre Leigh Academy will definitely be on the list, although a long shot. We might manage the very borders of the bigger bands.

@mamatravels, great to hear you're so happy with Harris. Sounds really positive.

@thiswaythat St Paul's is miles away unfortunately. Looking at what else is around, the other close-ish options could be a couple in Lewisham - Trinity or maybe just about St Matthews but both are church schools which I think would rule us out.

VioletIndigoblue what you say about the Head writing newspaper columns rings true.

When I was researching the school I found the many blog posts and I did wonder how a head had the time to write so extensively - again that isn't really my business, and she should be free to write, but what really put me off was a long post of hers about the joys of comprehensive education and something along the lines of when T Tallis students go to University she tells them to be nice to the other students who may not have experienced the opportunities of diversity and exposure to life that they have, and then she went on about people sending their children to grammar and private school and so on and it was insinuating that those parents are doing some sort of middle class parents trying to molly cuddle their children .. I just thought wow does she not realise all the different nationalities who try for grammar and private schools, has she never met parents working 2 or 3 jobs to pay for tutoring to get their kid into one of these schools, it was just the way she made out or insinuated they were all middle class white parents that blew my mind.. and so I felt she stereotyped people. Ofcourse I realise grammars can create issues in the make up of local schools but I just felt she was stereotyping parents in London. But it was good that she showed what she thought and as a parent who really values education I just felt it was not the right school for my kids.

In addition, I know two parents that took their children out.
One at first went to the school and mentioned they were having issues with the behaviour of their child slipping into the wrong crowd starting to make questionable choices, losing interest in academics, and this had never been the case, previously child was straight A student etc.. anyway the response from school was just let them be and experiment. Also for a time (not sure this is correct now) phones were allowed in the classroom so in some classes next to little work was being done, and again the response was we trust the students etc etc.

Another person I know had to deal with serious bullying of their child, now this can happen anywhere, but it was extremely serious and the Head did not seem to be involved, also I know the child who went from this lovely child to just such a sad shadow of their former selves and it will be a long road to sort out.

So I am afraid what I read and the two children I knew of who both had their issues there put me off the school. In addition some of the behaviour of the children at parks etc put me off but that could be any school. So unscientific but there you go, I just thought I would share some reasoning as to why we did not apply for TT.

Ofcourse the issues could be individual ones.

I do have friends with kids at Leigh Academy, and have heard the Head is very strict but very fair.

Good luck, it is difficult to know what to take into account when choosing schools.