Secondary admission conundrum

[Newbie061980]

Hi there - I'm hoping for a bit of advice. My DC is a bright, inquisitive and happy child that is currently well above average academically in her class (top 5). We live in an area where most of our local schools for year 7 entry are partially selective (3 out of our closest 5) and we have been told by our current school it is unlikely DC will get in to these as there are so few academic places and we live more than 200m away (the majority of the remaining places go to siblings and music / academic children outside the school catchment). A new non-academic school was built recently which we love the look of, and is our nearest school. However, that is now over-subscribed and we are 0.5km outside the distance rule. This will mean DC will likely be allocated a particular school that we know has a problem with bullying and teaching. I know of two children near us who are very unhappy there (and parents have noticed the children have lost their love of learning). My DC dreads the idea of going there (that's without us saying anything about it). So I was wondering if anyone can think of any other options - we are considering private but £20k+ per year (and a sibling) puts a real stretch on us. Any advice very welcomed!! 

OP are you in England? The set up you describe is certainly unusual.

I have not heard of partially selective schools - do you mean children take an 11+ exam? I don't understand how the school selects a very few local children and then picks academically able children from far away, bypassing more local able children. Or have I misunderstood? I would check the admissions criteria for these schools carefully.

The new school (not sure what you mean by non-academic - do you mean it is some kind of UTC?) might well be oversubscribed - many good schools are - but that doesn't mean you won't get a place. What do you mean by 0.5km outside the distance rule? Is that 0.5km away from the nearest offered place this year? Or 0.5km outside the school's catchment area? Either way, you are still entitled to apply and you may get a place.

Your other options if you don't car for the school you are in catchment for (but I would encourage you to look at it when you can, rather than take others' views) are to move house or go private. What year is your child in? If it's year 5 you would need to get your skates on if you want to move.

So do children who live near you always end up at the school you don't want, or are there any other schools in the area that your DD has a chance of getting into? The newly built school must be reducing pressure on other local schools, so it might be that schools she historically wouldn't get into, she now has a chance of. I agree with PP - unless schools have fixed catchment areas (and even then) the fact you wouldn't have got in this year, doesn't mean you won't get in next year.

If you really have no chance of a state school you would consider, then I'm afraid your only options are private or move.

I am guessing you are in the Clement Danes / Watford Girls / Parmiters triangle and the non selective school you are talking about is Croxley Danes?

You might get more help if you are more specific on your actual location.

Personally I am not sure that I believe what the current school says about your dc "not being academic enough".
It also depends on how these "partially selective" schools allocate places.
How many preferences do you have on the application forms for Y7?
If 3 preferences you could put down 2 of the partially selective schools and one other.
Are there any undersubscribed schools a bit further away than your closest one that you would be happy with?
If so you could put this one down as your final preference.

Partially selective comprehensive schools are common where I am. It means a proportion of pupils, say 25%, are selected on academic ability and those that scored highest will get a place - up to that 25% -no matter how far from the school. Everyone in the borough or neighbouring borough sits a test, because many other schools do fair banding -they take an equal number of pupils in each ability range. Other comprehensive schools are partially selective on things like music or sport or art etc and select a few pupils on this.

I was in a similar situation so moved house. It meant that dc1 started a new school in year 6 but he went to secondary with some of his primary school class so it worked out long term.

Sorry I didn't explain some of this do well 🙂! Yes it is England. And we are Y5 - should have researched all this much sooner!

Basically, in our area, the partially selective schools take in a proportion of children who are siblings (majority of the intake), then c.50 on academic (local) and then another 50 academic (outside region) and the rest on distance (which is

Yes it's SW herts consortium. It's the Watford / Rickmansworth schools. And Croxley Danes is the new school which is not academically selective but heavily over-subscribed.

It depends on the primary school, but top five would not be enough to get a place in such a comprehensive where I am. Only about one child per two-class year group would get in, and perhaps two in the “next tier” comprehensive. However, places do filter down as people accept other schools.

I think it's similar here. Only 1-2 children per class get in to the top selective schools. And then another 1-2 children at the remaining partially selective schools.

It is strange - there is so much pressure on the oldest sibling to perform - the stakes feel high!

What about a music place? The tests are based on aptitude and not achievement. If your daughter has a musical “ear”, doing some work on aural music with a good teacher could help.

I assumed musical aptitude requires knowledge of an instrument. DC does singing at school as an extra curricular activity. That may be a possible application route. Thank you!

Hmm I just looked up the admission criteria for Clement Danes and it says siblings are first (well, after LAC) which I agree might be an issue; but then up to 24 children with musical ability, then up to 24 children with academic ability. No suggestion of 50 on academic ability in the area and another 50 outside.

So that's what, say 100 siblings in a year (which sounds like a high figure) and a further > 48 for music or academic ability; still leaves almost 100 places on distance. How far are you from the school OP? Furthest distance in 2020 was 2.7k if I am reading it correctly.

hahah that should be < 48 good thing I'm not a maths specialist!

We are in Watford so Clement Danes too far. WGGS, Rickmansworth and Croxley Danes are the ones we were thinking of. Unfortunately closest school is 2.4km away..

Singing is classed as an “instrument” for these tests. The CD test is very achievable if you have have practiced the types of aural tests and your daughter has a good ear.

The second round is performance based. You could be Grade 6 or Grade 2 but marks are awarded between accuracy, musicality and communication. Someone who can captivate an audience at a lower grade stands a good chance as well as those who are bonkersly good.

www.swhertsschools.org.uk/music-aptitude-test/

I’m not in your area, but music places can be difficult to achieve - again, it depends on how desired the school is. One of my DC tried for a very desirable comprehensive. I was very naive. Grade 5 in instrument at 10 and at a junior conservatoire. Did not get an offer. There are DC who are on grade 8 and are astonishingly good.

@daisypond There are seven schools in the consortium the OP is talking about and each offers up to 10% of their places for children with musical aptitude. In other words, there are lots of places available across all the schools. I know someone who had never done a music exam ever but was a good singer who got a place. Of course there will be many talented children applying for them but it’s not as hard as for say a music scholarship at an independent school.

All these schools have very complicated admissions arrangements which include places allocated on distance and places allocated on either academics, music, or in one case, sport but outside catchment. It’s not easy to navigate.

Agreed it has become really difficult to navigate

I was looking at the scores for getting to Croxley Danes for musical aptitude and this year the lowest score was 18 and highest was 42. So it feels quite wide ranging.

It's sad it's so hard for a fairly academically minded child to have to go through so many hoops to get a place at a school where DC will be happy and flourish.

We are just going to give it our best. I can't ask more of my DC. If I need to use private route, I will..

If you look at the private route and 20k is a stretch, do consider schools which have good bursary schemes. Some schools have surprising high thresholds, for awarding a discount, providing your DC does well in the exam.

The admission criteria for croxley danes is not that unusual. There will be few who meet the admission criteria 1 or 2 to do with being looked after and it is the number of siblings in the school which will predetermine how many places are available on distance. The PAN is 180, so 18 places will be allocated on musical ability after those admitted on sibling criteria. After that is straight line distance from the school to the home.
It is not clear from the school's website as to whether in fact the school does actually have year 10 and 11 pupils at present. If not then you are looking at siblings from a smaller cohort of pupils than it will be in a couple of years, when the school has years 7 to 11 on site.

That's right. After the shock of realising how tough the process is, we have been reviewing historical data. As you say, siblings are growing year after year and the distance therefore will reduce. On top of that, we have new primary schools (e.g. Manchester) to accommodate new housing developments which are very close to Croxley Danes. That's why distance will be falling every year. Also, there were 980 applications for a cohort of 180 allocations.

*Lanchester not Manchester

@admission

The admission criteria for croxley danes is not that unusual. There will be few who meet the admission criteria 1 or 2 to do with being looked after and it is the number of siblings in the school which will predetermine how many places are available on distance. The PAN is 180, so 18 places will be allocated on musical ability after those admitted on sibling criteria. After that is straight line distance from the school to the home. It is not clear from the school's website as to whether in fact the school does actually have year 10 and 11 pupils at present. If not then you are looking at siblings from a smaller cohort of pupils than it will be in a couple of years, when the school has years 7 to 11 on site.

Croxley Danes only has Y7 and Y8 at the moment. So fewer siblings will get a place for next year or two.

I definitely recommend going down the musical aptitude route.

Locally, the current y6 is a bulge year, so it's going to be stressful for those children applying for places. Your year should be a tiny bit easier. But I'm afraid it's always difficult and lots don't get a school they'd particularly like.

It feels very unfair to have these partially selective schools in an area of such high population. Some year groups have fewer places than children, leading to the children being allocated places miles/hours away. The partially selective schools take children from many, many miles away, leaving local children without a place.

I'm guessing you want to avoid being allocated W?

My DD went through your same dilemma 2 years ago. If it's any comfort, that was also a bulge year and there were lots of very disappointed families. But after some people took up private school offers, and many went down the appeal route, I know of none that are left without a place they are at least satisfied with (even if it wasn't on their original list of choices).

The number of applications can be a bit of a red herring - if everyone uses their 6 preferences, you’re looking at 6 times the number of applications across the area than there are children (oversimplified, but you get the gist).