Alexandra Park School vs Highgate Wood (APS vs HGW)?

[chillberry]

We're currently in catchment for HGW and liked what I saw on a pre-covid open day. I had the impression the school has improved a lot in recent years and results look almost as good as APS.

But I also really liked APS and we now might have the opportunity to move into that catchment. We do like the area we're in right now a bit more than the APS area, but we're renting at the moment so don't have to worry about selling/buying and I'm wondering if a move would really be worth it.

Would love to hear more from people with current experience of these schools. DC is quiet, sensitive, academic type. How do they handle y7 transition? How has their covid provision been? Any red flags?

They are both nice schools.
Anecdotally, I 've heard that whereas APS will ask students to leave in 6th form if they are not hitting the required grades, HGW apparently doesn't do that and is more inclusive from that point of view.
I'm stressing that is just local gossip, and you might want to make further investigations. I can say that 3 or 4 years ago APS was definitely asking students to leave, I don't know if that is still the case.

I've read on the APS website that all students are expected to do 4 A-levels and they advise applicants to apply elsewhere if they think they'd struggle with four, so maybe some people interpret that as their child being "told to leave" if they're not super academic?

Hello, they are both good schools. I have children at both. I would say if you are in the catchment for HW stay there as the school is brilliant and my child LOVES it there. They are very agile and child centric and it has a great feeling and is in a lovely area. We are very happy with the school, the lovely teachers and the head.

How diverse is APS? Is it very middle class? I know it's in a wealthy area which is Muswell Hill. Is it similar to Fortismere where most of the kids are middle class?

sammyvine I think APS is pretty middle class, probably not as diverse at HGW.

I hear a lot about Fortismere results being largely reflective of the amount of private tutoring families pay for. I don't know if the same is said for APS. I think there's more socio-economic diversity at HGW and, if that's true and there's not as much private tutoring happening, then I suppose that says a lot about HWG teaching, as their results are nearly as good as APS.

Crouchendmumoftwo Great to hear your positive feedback. What year are your children in? Is there anything you're unhappy about at either school?

I'm local to HWS and have friends with children at HWS, APS and Fortismere. From my understanding Fortismere has by far the most tutoring, as @chillberry writes. But don't be fooled, I know many children with tutors at HWS too, but not to the extent as at Fortismere.

I really liked APS when I went to see it and I have only heard good about it. However, I would never move to get DC into APS when living within the "catchement" of HWS. I don't think the difference is that significant.

My understanding is that APS is less diverse nowadays. Fortismere is the least diverse of these three schools.

@EnergyThieves

I'm local to HWS and have friends with children at HWS, APS and Fortismere. From my understanding Fortismere has by far the most tutoring, as *@chillberry* writes. But don't be fooled, I know many children with tutors at HWS too, but not to the extent as at Fortismere.

I really liked APS when I went to see it and I have only heard good about it. However, I would never move to get DC into APS when living within the "catchement" of HWS. I don't think the difference is that significant.

My understanding is that APS is less diverse nowadays. Fortismere is the least diverse of these three schools.

Oh really I am not surprised about Fortismere. I have heard great things about APS as well....when you say its less diverse these days is that because everybody wants to go there now and prefer it to Fortismere therefore they are mostly taking people that live in Muswell Hill? I remember many years ago children who used to live Wood Green (which isn't the best of areas) got into APS. I am guessing that is a thing of the past now and they are taking kids similar to the ones that Fortismere take?

@chillberry

sammyvine I think APS is pretty middle class, probably not as diverse at HGW.

I hear a lot about Fortismere results being largely reflective of the amount of private tutoring families pay for. I don't know if the same is said for APS. I think there's more socio-economic diversity at HGW and, if that's true and there's not as much private tutoring happening, then I suppose that says a lot about HWG teaching, as their results are nearly as good as APS.

Crouchendmumoftwo Great to hear your positive feedback. What year are your children in? Is there anything you're unhappy about at either school?

Wow so it seems APS has changed. As i said in another post years ago many kids that were living in Wood Green went to APS. It now seems that since the school is so highly rated, i am guessing they are taking kids that live in the 'wealthy parts' now, basically in the houses right next to the school?

Sammyvine - that's right. The catchment now goes nowhere near Wood Green. Kids from up Alexandra Park Road towards MH - who previously would have applied to Fortismere- started to go to APS and the catchment shrank dramatically.
The kids who live towards Ally Pally station who would historically have gone to APS now get into to Heartlands (a new school near the station on the Wood Green side) which is basically how APS was a decade or so ago and I believe is run by the same trust. Diverse demographics, good academics and a growing reputation, and no sixth form (yet - I believe there are plans to add one).

@chillberry. Hi I have children in year 7 & 8 at HW/APS. My children are totally different. I would not like to write anything negative about the schools. As I said HW has been very adaptive to the childrens needs and their provision of online learning has been very good in comparison to other schools. We have also had a weekly letter from the head on a Saturday updating us. Their parent comms are excellent and there is a real sense of community with a strong PTA support so they have had lots of virtual fundraising events. It has a very friendly supportive feel with lovely children. I do not think it is worth moving to go to another school. The catchment is shrinking a lot and lots of people living on the outskirts of Crouch End have to wait over a year to get in now. Some parts of the local area are out of catchment now.

My other child has made lovely friends at APS too but the school is stricter and less flexible that HW in my experience, good or bad. Both schools have lovely teachers too. I think they are both excellent as is Fortismere and other schools nearby. Most children I know at all these schools are extreemly happy including my children.

[quote Crouchendmumoftwo]@chillberry. Hi I have children in year 7 & 8 at HW/APS. My children are totally different. I would not like to write anything negative about the schools. As I said HW has been very adaptive to the childrens needs and their provision of online learning has been very good in comparison to other schools. We have also had a weekly letter from the head on a Saturday updating us. Their parent comms are excellent and there is a real sense of community with a strong PTA support so they have had lots of virtual fundraising events. It has a very friendly supportive feel with lovely children. I do not think it is worth moving to go to another school. The catchment is shrinking a lot and lots of people living on the outskirts of Crouch End have to wait over a year to get in now. Some parts of the local area are out of catchment now.

My other child has made lovely friends at APS too but the school is stricter and less flexible that HW in my experience, good or bad. Both schools have lovely teachers too. I think they are both excellent as is Fortismere and other schools nearby. Most children I know at all these schools are extreemly happy including my children.[/quote]
off topic but the head of HGW, Mr Cozier used to teach me many years ago! I went to Winchmore school in Enfield and he was an assistant headteacher when I was there. It's great to see that he has become a headteacher, especially when you don't see many black headteachers in secondary schools. It's seems that he is also doing a very good job!

@Polly99

Sammyvine - that's right. The catchment now goes nowhere near Wood Green. Kids from up Alexandra Park Road towards MH - who previously would have applied to Fortismere- started to go to APS and the catchment shrank dramatically. The kids who live towards Ally Pally station who would historically have gone to APS now get into to Heartlands (a new school near the station on the Wood Green side) which is basically how APS was a decade or so ago and I believe is run by the same trust. Diverse demographics, good academics and a growing reputation, and no sixth form (yet - I believe there are plans to add one).

Wow. I guess it was expected but I think what was great about APS was how diverse it was....i think there was a nice balance between the more wealthy children of Muswell Hill and those less well off from Wood Green etc.... I guess that is a thing of the past now and those with money will just buy houses near good schools like APS and get their children in.

"Wow. I guess it was expected but I think what was great about APS was how diverse it was....i think there was a nice balance between the more wealthy children of Muswell Hill and those less well off from Wood Green etc...."

This was what I thought when I went to the HGW open day/evening. The diverse mix of students is very appealing appealing to me.

That said, APS is still very tempting and the atmosphere felt like one my DC would thrive in (Fortismere, OTOH, felt too chaotic). I'm definitely warming up to HGW though, and I recognise that I'm fortunate to have the choice and flexibility if we do decide to move.

Aps- move within 0.4 miles.
HGW- move within 0.8 miles.
One will let your kid dye their hair blue the other will give them a cotton pad for their nail polish.
A bit like choosing a vegan or meat sausage roll at Gregg's. Kinda different but mainly the same.
If your kid has SEN APS is better and their science block doesn't look like a prison, but it is a bunch of old office building converted into a school so sausage roll illustration still applies.
Mr cozier is far nicer but your child is unlikely to be taught by either so doesn't matter much.

@meadowbreeze

Aps- move within 0.4 miles. HGW- move within 0.8 miles. One will let your kid dye their hair blue the other will give them a cotton pad for their nail polish. A bit like choosing a vegan or meat sausage roll at Gregg's. Kinda different but mainly the same. If your kid has SEN APS is better and their science block doesn't look like a prison, but it is a bunch of old office building converted into a school so sausage roll illustration still applies. Mr cozier is far nicer but your child is unlikely to be taught by either so doesn't matter much.

I know this sounds like the dumbest question ever but 0.4 miles is literally on the same road/down the road from the school so basically thats how close you have to live to get in?

@chillberry

"Wow. I guess it was expected but I think what was great about APS was how diverse it was....i think there was a nice balance between the more wealthy children of Muswell Hill and those less well off from Wood Green etc...."

This was what I thought when I went to the HGW open day/evening. The diverse mix of students is very appealing appealing to me.

That said, APS is still very tempting and the atmosphere felt like one my DC would thrive in (Fortismere, OTOH, felt too chaotic). I'm definitely warming up to HGW though, and I recognise that I'm fortunate to have the choice and flexibility if we do decide to move.

Yes. I know few people who went to APS and they spoke well of it. It's seems like it's one of the best non selective schools in North London. What it was known for was it wasn't like Fortismere that has a large middle-class intake, it was a more diverse since kids would live in Bounds Green and Wood Green and go to APS but obviously that has changed dramatically !

I am hearing a lot of good things about HGW. It seems it has improved a lot and like i said Mr Cozier used to teach me!
I have heard a lot of good things about Archer Academy in East Finchley. There GCSE results are amazing but from reading threads on here you need to live very close to get in!

@sammyvine oh you need to live on the doorstep. They get on average 15 kids with EHCPs, 10 looked after, lots of siblings, staff places and we are just coming to the end of the 2006-2009 baby boom so catchment has been crazy. I know a family who's kid didn't get in from Windermere road.
Long gone are the days of Tottenham and even bounds green kids going there.
Most of the kids that live around Ally Pally and bounds green now go to Heartlands.

My son has an ECHP and went to APS, he had a wonderful 5 years there, the teaching and support for him was excellent. My daughter is currently in year 9 and loving it. Obviously it's been a hard and very strange year for all of them.

I find the demographic fairly diverse, we live about 2 miles away and my daughter's school friends don't all live in Muswell Hill, despite the ever decreasing 'catchment'.

@owlmummy

My son has an ECHP and went to APS, he had a wonderful 5 years there, the teaching and support for him was excellent. My daughter is currently in year 9 and loving it. Obviously it's been a hard and very strange year for all of them.

I find the demographic fairly diverse, we live about 2 miles away and my daughter's school friends don't all live in Muswell Hill, despite the ever decreasing 'catchment'.

You don't live in Muswell Hill? Going by the admission it seems you need to live on the door step unless this is only a recent thing? Like i said many years ago many kids who went to APS lived in Wood Green which is the more disadvantaged parts of the borough. By all accounts this is a thing of the past!

My son has a ECHP so distance from school doesn't apply, or in theory it shouldn't apply.

[quote meadowbreeze]@sammyvine oh you need to live on the doorstep. They get on average 15 kids with EHCPs, 10 looked after, lots of siblings, staff places and we are just coming to the end of the 2006-2009 baby boom so catchment has been crazy. I know a family who's kid didn't get in from Windermere road.
Long gone are the days of Tottenham and even bounds green kids going there.
Most of the kids that live around Ally Pally and bounds green now go to Heartlands.[/quote]
meadowbreeze All of Windermere Road is

@chillberry it was two years ago at the peak of the 2007-9 baby boom and they definitely put it as first choice. I believe the cut off that year was 0.43 or something and they just didn't make it. I believe he got in at some point in September when the grammar places were moving.

very hard to believe all of you when you said that HWS and APS are similar school

one has 42% in A*-A
and the other had 26% in A*-A

drilling into key data such as Maths/further Maths / STEM gave exactly the same picture

to clarify my view: I'm only looking at the academics and we will turn down APS for the 6th form for our DD

When looking at academic results for these schools, I think for year 7-11 you need to look more at GCSE results than A levels, because there is a lot of movement post GCSEs which makes direct comparisons potentially misleading.

The APS sixth form isnt really made up of APS students. It's mostly kids east of the borough from schools that don't have sixth forms. The FSM % is mostly them. It's a very different school y7-11