Gcses

[jmh740]

My daughter is in year 9 and has just chosen her options. I was chatting to a friend about it and she was surprised dd is only doing 6, maths, English, science then the 3 options. I'd never really considered it before but after a quick Google it seems most other local schools do more, between 7-11. Is just doing 6 gcses going to hold her back in the future with others having more gcses than her, or does it mean she will be able to focus more on the 6 she does? How many gcses are others doing?

I think you may have misunderstood. English is 2 GCSEs (Language and Literature) and Science is either 2 or 3 GCSEs. So your daughter is doing either 8 or 9 GCSEs if she has 3 options.

Yes, agree with pp. Although most schools would encourage core subjects (maths, English x2, science x2 or 3 depending on ability) plus a modern foreign language plus a humanity (history or geography) and then just give them two options (three if they don't take a language).

I have emailed school to ask. On other local schools websites it mentions English literature and language as 2 gcses but on my daughters school website it says English, maths and science are compulsory with her doing 5 hours a week for each, then 3 hours a week for her 3 options, she did not have to choose a humanities subject. I have just started working in a high school and our pupils do 9gcses.

Also agree with PPs - she'll be taking 8 or 9 GCSEs (depending on combined or triple science). Is this really not information that the school has already provided to you? DC's school produces an options booklet, and they describe what you have to cover as part of even the mandatory subjects!

Based on the timings you've given - if this is an "average" school with 25 hours timetabled a week, then she's spending 5 hours on each of maths, English, science and 3 hour on each of her option subjects (and presumably the last hour is PE?)

For comparison, my DD is taking 10 subjects, but spending 2 hours a week on each of 4 option subjects, 4 hours a week on maths, 4 hours on English (Lang and Lit; 2 hours on each) and 5 hours on science (combined science in her case). 5 hours on just a single English or Science GCSE sounds way too much compared to this.

Almost all state schools do English Language GCSE and English Literature GCSE so that is two normally, and Science in a state school is normally either combined which is two (in our school this is lower and middle set) or triple (top set) which is 3. In some schools the third science is in place of an option, in ours you get less PE. So she is likely to be doing 8 or 9 assuming she's not on a special timetable due to SEN.

I would say 9 is the most common in a state school - generally English x 2 and maths are compulsory as is combined or triple science which can be ability based so top set do 3, middle and bottom set do 2, then at our school RE is compulsory, either History or Geography is compulsory. You can take one MFL but this year that is optional. Our top of top set in maths also strongly encouraged to take level 3 additional maths and GCSE statistics as a double option which takes them to 11 but this is only about 10 kids a year, ones who may do Maths and Further Maths at A level and it takes them into the first year of the A level course. But a child who is in middle set everything would take 9. Children with SN / lower ability can go on a special timetable to be on less.

At the grammar school my DD went to before they do 10 but it very selective with almost all grades at 8 or 9. Privates do 10 around here. Our school is unusual in doing so many and in making RE compulsory in a non-religious school.

Agree with PPs, your daughter is doing either 8 or 9 GCSEs, no way would a school only do 6 (unless there was some special needs).

Plus 5 hours a week for Eng/Math/Sci & 3 hours a week each for 3 options is the standard time to deliver these 8/9 GCSEs.

English is shorthand for lit+lang, just like science is shorthand phys+bio+chem.

She will be doing at least 8 in order for the school to comply with Progress 8. Most schools round here do 9 with a few doing 10. Lower ability children sometimes only do 8

Science has to be at least double science as single combined no longer exists and it’s highly unlikely any state school would allow single biology etc. English is also very likely to be both language and literature although again, some schools will put lower ability or those with specific SEN through just language if doing both would mean the student is less likely to get a pass grade 4.

I emailed school I didnt expect a reply today but I've had one, the reply said she's doing 8 gcses English is lit and language so 2 and science is combined so also 2. The communication from school has always been shocking. Ds starts there in sept and I wish there was a better option for him.

Good that they've got back to you so soon. Sounds like she's taking a pretty standard combination :)

DDs school have 3.5 hours maths a week, 3.5 hours English, 6 hours triple science, 1 hour PE, RE 3.5 hours a week and 3 options of 2.5 hours each which must include history or geography, one is a double option Further Maths/Stats.

Did you not have a booklet / presentation explaining all the options etc?
I'm pretty sure your DD will have had all this explained to her.

On the timetable it will look like 'English' or 'Science' but sometimes they will be doing e.g. Macbeth and other times creative writing or whatever.

At the end of it she will have something like 2 exams for Eng Lang, 2 for Eng Lit, and probably 6 for Science comprising 2 Biology, 2 Chemistry and 2 Physics.

The Science is a 'double award' and a grade will look like 7/7 or 7/6 or 6/6 or whatever.

In Maths and Science (and foreign language?) eventually they will need to choose for your DD whether she is entered for Foundation or Higher tier. In foundation you can only get up to a grade 5 but the initial questions are easier which means it is easier for less confident children to get into the paper.

I'm surprised that you haven't had a booklet from school about options. Didn't your DD discuss her options with you?

We have had a zoom options half hour and a booklet sent through but nothing like the input for older dc due to pandemic so being a first time around parent it would be easier to miss the info.

The only time taking double science may be an issue is if she wants to go somewhere else for sixth-form which mainly offers triple and she wants to do science A levels e.g. for medicine etc. She may need to catch up in summer after GCSEs. If she has no plans to study science further she can concentrate on the subjects she enjoys.

@Cattitudes

We have had a zoom options half hour and a booklet sent through but nothing like the input for older dc due to pandemic so being a first time around parent it would be easier to miss the info.

The only time taking double science may be an issue is if she wants to go somewhere else for sixth-form which mainly offers triple and she wants to do science A levels e.g. for medicine etc. She may need to catch up in summer after GCSEs. If she has no plans to study science further she can concentrate on the subjects she enjoys.

Combined science isn’t an issue for taking A levels or medicine - some schools are only able to offer combined science due to staffing/timetabling/size of cohort.

What matters is that the student gets at least a grade 7 in combined science for medicine applications. Around here all the post 16 centres will only let students take A levels if they get a grade 6 or higher in combined science/that subject if they’ve taken triple and a grade 6 or higher in maths.

It will mean a steeper learning curve at the start of the A level but it won’t stop them taking it or doing well.

Yes as I say it is only really an issue if the norm in the place she wants to study A levels is to do triple. The schools around here (fairly large cohorts) mainly do triple unless really struggling with science so to come into a sixth form to study A level science with just combined would be very unusual. To be fair it is hard to get into those sixth forms too as most dc stay on to sixth-form in their secondary school. They will be getting straight into the A level syllabus in September assuming they know triple science content. There is talk of this year even doing some early prep in yr11 as they did last year once the assessments are completed, someone new to the school would be even more disadvantaged. That is why I said she might want to do some extra prep over the summer.

Sorry for teaching you to suck eggs - so many parents think that triple science is for bright students and combined for those not so bright and it just isn’t the case, you can get 9|9 in combined science. Many students who do combined science go on and fly in A level sciences.

All the triple content needs teaching again anyway in September in the new A level way with A level terminology etc (I teach A level biology and often have to say “remember when we said xyz, we over simplified it, this is actually what happens...”). Sometimes I find those who come in having done combined science at a higher level do better than those with a grade 6 or 7 in GCSE biology.

My dd picked combined science for GCSE as she wasn't particularly interested in science back then but ended up discovering that she was interested in biology and is predicted an A at A-level.
At our school triple is only available to the top 2 sets hence parents assuming that it's for the academic kids.

I teach A level biology and often have to say “remember when we said xyz, we over simplified it, this is actually what happens...

Dd was saying this about photosynthesis not being just an equation anymore.

At our school triple science is for the top third and combined for below that - the school test and if you pass the test, you are good at maths, you are good in lessons you get triple. The triple results the school get are normally all 7s to 9s, whereas the combined the highest is 6/6 that anyone gets in the school.

The 6th form our school feeds into requires 7s to do a A level in a science or 7/7 if combined so at our school you would need triple or combined plus a tutor to get on to A levels. If you have a school which doesn't select like ours then you can do A levels from combined or if you have a sixth form that takes with a 6 but our one doesn't.

Sorry for teaching you to suck eggs - so many parents think that triple science is for bright students and combined for those not so bright and it just isn’t the case, you can get 9|9 in combined science. Many students who do combined science go on and fly in A level sciences.

I agree. At DD's school triple science took up one of the options, so the triple science students weren't being taught triple science in the same amount of time as the double science students

I do think it's a shame that so many schools insist top sets = triple science; other sets = combined science. My middle ability DS really enjoyed studying triple science; whereas my higher ability DD wanted the opportunity to focus on subjects other than science. Fortunately they go to a school where other than the very bottom ability students, everyone has free choice (and triple science uses up an extra option).

Virtually all children in the schools around here do triple science although one of the schools offers computing science as a fourth/ alternative science. I think UserTwice school probably has the best approach as some are fairly sure at 14 that their interests lie elsewhere and don't want to use 6 options (2xEng, Maths, 3 sciences) on compulsory subjects, especially when a MFL and humanity is also required. Leaves little space for creative subjects or additional humanities/languages.