Private schools must take responsibility for boys behaviour outside

[rosemary201]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools-must-take-responsibility-for-boys-behaviour-outside-says-good-schools-guide-head-m8ggl33bz

How can they? Why only private schools? Do people who pay for children's education expect the schools to take responsibility for their children outside? Please don't answer if you're not sending your children to private schools.

I can't read the article, but I agree this shouldn't just be private schools. Many private schools do have models that suggest that parents just send their child to them, and the school does "everything" though.

However, schools are already responsible for their pupils' behaviour out of school to some degree. All schools (state and private) issue guidance along the lines of "remember if you're in uniform, your behaviour reflects on the school". If your child is bullied by other children on the way home, by and large your first stop is for the school to sort it out. Same if your child is cyber bullied.

Of course, it's up to parents to take responsibility for bad behaviour as well, but it's surely a joint effort?

I just re-read your thread and now realise you don't want lowly state school parents to answer your thread, so I will parrot back to you "why only private school" parents?

Hasn't this subject been debated to death on this forum already? Agree that it is an important subject, but do we really need a new thread each time a newspaper writes a new article?

crawling back into my state school parent hole

Why only private schools? The EI website now includes many accounts of abuse perpetrated by those at state schools, colleges, and universities.

Why only boys? I realise the majority of testimonies on the EI website are accounts of what's happened to young women, but there are also accounts of young men being subjected to abuse as well.

The media witch-hunt against boys' independent schools continues.

It's the schools that sell themselves as 'creators of character' that are being looked at, I thought?

i.e. if a school makes a claim that it will take your money and mould your son's character, then it has some responsibility to turn out a "decent type of boy" through the educational values and lessons provided, including behaviour off-site.

That's how I read the argument. Whether it's a tenable argument or not ... I make no judgement.

I won’t answer as I am not qualified according to your criteria to have an opinion (probably can’t spell either or present a coherent angle for debate TBH)

I think parents have a responsibility outside of school but school should seek to teach appropriate values to its pupils. With boarding schools though its a bit different during term time as then the children are under the care of the school even when out and about outside of achool hours.

That website was started by a lady who went to a private boarding school so I think the majority of comments started from the independent sector for that reason. However, I would be surprised if children were much different in the state schools!

My children are in private school (coed prep). One is headed for an all boys school that has been mentioned on that website, albeit not one that had extensive mentions. I dont have concerns about the school being at fault from what I have read on that site!

I remember my own experiences at school and some of the things that happened. It was a non posh state school. I dont think human nature has changed much judging by the postings and is probably universal in that age group (obviously not all children behaving badly but there will be some in all walks of life and all schools, I suspect). The main difference is the prevalence of phone cameras and what can be done with them which didnt exist when I was at school.

@Oohhhbetty @MarieDelaere

Who suggested that you're lowly and not worthy? You put the labels on yourselves.

I only asked for product reviews of those who have bought the product.

apologies I meant @UserTwice not @MarieDelaere

I think the point the expert made is that if you market yourself as being able to mould your characters you should actually be able to do that to some extent, otherwise it’s false advertising. Hence it doesn’t apply to state schools, which don’t have to market themselves in that way.

You asked how schools could be responsible for students out of school.
You asked if this was applicable to state schools as well as private schools.
Neither of these questions involve a "product review" of a private school, and give the impression that you consider state school parents' opinions as not worth listening to, hence the "labels".

Ironically the one parent on this thread who admits having a child at an independent school, has a child at prep school - so they have no knowledge of private secondary school either. But apparently you are interested in their opinion ....

Turning this into a private schools issue is just plain wrong.

OK - it looked that way at the start, when EI began amongst private school pupils.

But word spread accounts flooded in, and it's perfectly clear that this is an issue for all schools

We really must not allow the impetus to be lost by focussing in the wrong place.

This is a big question about how we socialise young men.

Families are key, but wider society matters, from the porn culture, to tolerance of drinking and drugs, role models in sport and in general, and of course schools. All of them

I think it is a society-wide issue that has existed forever but has worsened due to easy availability of really horrible porn which has become normalised. I have teen and pre-teen kids who were humming along to the WAP song for weeks (but saying wine and pizza). I think nothing will improve until we control what we as a society accept as 'normal'. You absolutely cannot hold schools solely responsible. it is up to all of us.

I've had two emails saying I've been tagged on this thread.

I can't see where?

Locally the toxic masculinity / abusive behaviour is usually from boys (and girls) that don’t go to private school. The private school kids don’t get a chance to display any unsavoury behaviour in public as they get driven to / from school / classes / friends houses.

In school, school's business.

Out of school - police business.

Lots of state schools also claim to shape and mould their pupils' character (speaking as someone who has been to a lot of open events and read a lot of school prospectuses in the last few years). Have one at state and one at private.

Erm, what about the parents????

I send my kids to independent schools and at no point would I hold the schools accountable for stuff that happened in the evenings, weekends or holidays. That’s utterly bonkers.

Sure they have a role to play in creating the whole person, educating right from wrong and how to be a good citizen, but to be responsible for their actions off school premises?

I think a journalist needs to write about the alcohol and drug filled parties being held by children from our local independent which the parents (and their friends) attend on a “supervisory” basis. They are just as accountable for facilitating and enabling situations where this sort of behaviour can proliferate.

Abusive or unwanted sexual behaviours within school should be treated in the same way as they would if the student was caught with drugs. Both illegal but it seems only drugs consistently ends up with a suspension or expulsion.

I recommend it to read for everyone (link below) who thinks that this is a new problem that concerns only the best private schools.
Sexual harassment at school has always been a known problem. It takes place in every school. Students, parents, schools, the government, the media... are to be blamed here. It is extremely unfair to hunt a witch - to private schools. Harassment in private and public schools is the same crime and affects victims in the same way.
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmwomeq/91/91.pdf

I think most people would agree that abusive behaviour is prevalent and can be found in a lot of schools.

But the recent news shattered the myth that the prestigious private schools are better at "building character" than the state schools. Pastoral care at these schools can be as weak, judging from the bad experience of their female students.

My Ds went to a private school and honestly honestly never saw harassment in the way it is now reported - doesn't not mean to say it never happened but he did not see it & school had a very very strict bullying etc policy. But just one school . Not every private school is dreadful.

The main details from the article, looks reasonable to me:

She said schools should remember this in the fallout from the Everyone’s Invited sex abuse scandal, telling The Times: “When you sign your child up to an independent school, I’ve heard headmasters stand up and say to parents: ‘You need to feed your child and make sure they get enough sleep — we will take care of the rest.’

“Schools sell themselves on turning out the kind of gentleman you’d like to sit next to at dinner or that your daughter would bring home. If they’re going to make that kind of sweeping statement in marketing materials, they need to stand by that.”

One recent advert for a boys’ school says it helps boys to be “the best versions of themselves” so they can “become capable, courteous and caring” young men.

Our of interest, I've just googled the 'about us' page of our local comp. It says that its 'distinctive approach to education' seeks to enable pupils to 'achieve their utmost in terms of character'. The education at this school 'should be better and fuller than they would experience anywhere else'. How is this claim any different from what people are saying that private schools claim?

@theblueflower I would say not much different . My son's school ( private ) said they want the pupils to behave in a sensible and responsible way & modest . It sounds similar .

@blueflower - I am one who utterly holds by - not every private school is great ( I've been to one - I know - it was rubbish ) and not every state school is rubbish - so many are great ) My son at Oxford knew very many who were at state schools - utterly great. The person who got the best degree in his year was from a comprehensive school - they are friends to this day

I do think it is a slightly disingenuous argument ( per se) to argue between state and private schools - because both can be better or worse

Please someone take up the argument - but do you see my point ? )

Love that the OP has started a thread about not wanting things limited to private schools but then wants to limit the answers to only those from private schools! I do have an opinion on all this but woe betide I express it here, what with being a state school parent and all.

@theblueflower

Our of interest, I've just googled the 'about us' page of our local comp. It says that its 'distinctive approach to education' seeks to enable pupils to 'achieve their utmost in terms of character'. The education at this school 'should be better and fuller than they would experience anywhere else'. How is this claim any different from what people are saying that private schools claim?

Just googled our local comp...

"Preparing every student to be a pillar of any community. By this we mean that we are focusing on developing students to be the very best they can be in all aspects of their lives not only through academic progress but also by developing the soft skills that will enable students to be successful in the world such as good manners and the ability to speak confidently combined with the desire to participate through sport, the arts and contributing to charity and community projects".

They all have mission statements, values etc. Agree not much different to private schools.