Year 9 Options question

[BaconAndAvocado]

DS2 is in the process of choosing his options for GCSE.

He’s narrowed it down to Computing, Business and History and needs to choose 2 out of the 3. Finding it hard to choose.

Being 14, he doesn’t know what he wants to do. He’s a bright boy, at a Grammar school.

I think he’ll definitely go for Computing as he thinks he can get a high grade in it and has built his own computer so already has an interest here.

It’s History and Business that are causing the problem.
He enjoys History and the GCSE curriculum covers periods that he says he’s interested in.
Equally he thinks he might go for Business but more because it’s a vocational qualification.

I’m hoping any decisions he makes now won’t limit him in the future!
And because of Covid we haven’t had the usual input from his school e.g. Options Evening.

There’s a virtual Parents Evening on Tuesday but as he hasn’t studied Business (or Computing for that matter) there won’t be a subject teacher to talk to.

In my mind, I’m thinking History is a more academic subject and that he could possibly learn about running a business in the future without needing to do a GCSE in it.

And I think the world is a much better place for having autistic people in them rather than snobbby, judgemental ones.

Who is judging autistic people? I cannot see where this came from? Surely we do not think every STEM DC is autisitc?

Essay writing is absolutely linked to writing lengthy and detailed reports for clients. It is necessary because of the structure involved in writing a report and organising thoughts in a coherent way. It is not just about bullet points and a short narrative you might see at GCSE. It is about detail and being able to express this clearly in a way everyone understands. It is almost certain a STEM person will not do any lengthy writing at A level either as STEM subjects do not require this. Universities do not appear to care about clarity and quality of writing either - certainly in engineering degrees. Some employers will care a lot more because their reputation is on the line. Some employees might be able to hide away and never have to write anything but if you are a professional, and certainly working for a consultancy, there are few hiding places. Understanding what is needed at work is often a key point in choosing a balanced education.

AlexaShutUp thanks, I wasn’t sure how many GCSEs is the norm now.
It was a while ago that DS1 took his.

What qualifies a child as being “academic”?
Genuine question......he’s a bright boy at a grammar school who spends most of his free time on the PlayStation or kicking a ball about with his friends (previously).

Does being clever mean you’re academic?

PresentingPercy
It’s interesting what you say re STEM students/professionals and writing.
DS1 took all STEM subjects at A level and studied Chem Eng at Uni.
He definitely found English GCSE a challenge but now, at 23, he writes articles for a financial website as a sideline.

With DS2 in Year 9 I’m not sure that he’s written any actual essays yet.
I can’t remember when they start to do this.

What qualifies a child as being “academic”?

Interesting question! By "academic", I guess I mean the kind of kid who finds it relatively easy to excel in school work and exams, i.e. is likely to get good grades if they put in a reasonable amount of work.

I don't think it's the same as "clever" as there are so many different types of intelligence. Academic is just one type of "clever", but there will be kids who are not at all academic (i.e.will not excel in exams etc) who are nonetheless very intelligent/"clever" in other ways. E.g. they might have incredibly good practical skills, they might be talented entrepreneurs, or they might be exceptionally emotionally intelligent etc.

AlexaShutUp
Yes, that makes sense.

Apart from his 11+, I don’t yet know how he gets on in exams!

FWIW I'd go history every time if he's interested by it?

History proves you can learn and analyse and write essays. Very transferable skills.

No need to have a business studies GCSE to study it at A level, and no need to have A level to study it at degree level or start your own business.

I am certainly not saying STEM students cannot write accurately but I do think parents excuse their DC of writing and essays because they are good at STEM. It shouldn’t be either/or. As your DS has discovered, both are necessary. Even if it’s a sideline. It’s such a good skill to have too!

Computing and history.

Computing - great GCSE, useful if wants to do CS A-level. So many jobs involve coding.

History- also a great GCSE, great for developing analytical skills and essay writing. Interesting too.

PresentingPercy
And being able to write a good personal statement or covering letter is always really important.

Well my son is rubbish at science as well as writing. No one is excluding kids from writing on the basis of bring good st STEM subjects, we are often juSt being realistic.

It takes practice though doesn’t it? Writing. I’m talking about DC self excluding from essay subjects because DC are only looking at Stem but don’t see the advantages of being able to write well. I’m not suggesting anyone is excluding them from subjects.

I hope your DS will find something he enjoys and can achieve well in.

He has found something he enjoys and he is excelling in it.

Options update.

DS2 chose History and Computing with Business as a third choice.

Since found out that he’s going to be put forward to do Further Maths GCSE. If he does Triple Science, he’ll be doing 12 GCSEs, which seems too many to me.
He might be better off opting for the 2 sciences.

Computing and Business - one of these should go. Business probably. It’s pointless with the sciences, maths and computing.

Our school has a similar system - the top set do triple science and the top of top set for maths can take level 3 (like an AS level) in additional maths and it takes them up to equivalent of 12 GCSEs. I also think this is too many and both mine were selected for this, DD in y10 and DS in y9 (ASD). However, at our school the only way you can reduce is to go into middle set double science where the maximum grade achieved is 6/6 and its taught to a lower level or to not take the further maths level 3.

Does your son want to take triple science and extra maths and might he take them at A level? Both mine wanted to take and both want to do Maths and Further Maths at A level, DS wants to do Physics A level and DD isn't sure but may want to do a science A level. DD said she didn't think it would be too much work so she is doing the equivalent of 12 and she seems to manage it fine and her grades are fine - obviously GCSEs are a bit of a shambles with covid but predicted grades are all 9s apart from 3 8s. I would ask him how he feels and if he has any idea about A levels. You could also ask school, ours is only 1 hour more of lessons a week (instead of pe) and the rest is self-taught so it does require some self-discipline and ability to teach yourself. I did see someone say on a different thread that FM GCSE now Maths GCSE is reformed is very little work so if its definitely just the GCSE it may not add too much. Also if he was stressed how would he react? Would he just struggle on and get bad mental health or would he say, that would make a difference to me.

My DS I think will struggle a lot with so many but he is SN and very strongly wants to do the extra maths and science so will start him on all then adjust as needed but its likely to be different ones that reduce if he can't manage as those are ones he doesn't struggle with and will take to A level.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4178816-GCSE-Further-Maths-Does-your-school-do-it

Thread - worth checking exactly what it is as there seems to be a few qualifications with similar names and some schools doing level 2, some level 3.

Why don’t schools put their strong mathematicians in for gcse in y10? Then move on to A level in y11? FM too. Who needs all these extra exams and classes? Just accelerate learning but cut out superfluous exams.

Our school won't enter early for maths and they have a strange policy that when they do early entry its the whole year or nothing. They used to enter the whole year early for English Language which makes no sense at all in a comprehensive.

I think with the Maths it maybe as there's no 6th form so they don't teach A level Maths there and also the Further Maths / Stats is timetabled seperately so there would then be a gap in y11 on their timetable. I think some schools enter lots of exams for the league tables rather than the child, school asked DD to enter an extra 2 again and teach herself which would have taken her up to the equivalent of 14 and she'ld probably have only got a 5 in those so not in her interests but adds to schools passes so we said no.

Silkiescat DS2 doesn’t have any idea what he wants to do!
One of his best friends wants to study law, it must be great to know what you want to do at such a young age.

PresentingPercy
DS2 will do his Statistics GCSE in Year 10 but the rest will all be in Year 11.
Strange, as at DS1’s comprehensive, he did a GCSE in Year 9 and a couple in Year 10.
I thought a grammar school would do more earlier??

I think schools changed when people could sit the exams when the reformed qualifications came in (2017/18?) and said that they had to be done in one or 2 sittings only, rather than a couple in year 10, 2 in January of year 11 and the rest in June of year 11. Previously you could resit modules but Gove decided that was unfair, so it went.

Some people on here write surprising things. History is good for essay writing. Scientists need to be able to write essays. My older DD is finishing her Masters year at Cambridge in Natural Sciences. In addition to her science/maths A levels. she also has English Lit and has found it really useful when conducting literature reviews and writing reports. Only at the end of last term was her report-writing praised in terms of her being able to structure her work coherently. Last year's literature review was published in a journal with no amendments or corrections. She did History and Business GCSEs; Cambridge was obviously happy with both.

I think writing is a desirable skill to have but don't agree at all that someone who is very mathematical / scientific and not great at writing will be unemployable. I have worked / know many such people in finance / economics / engineering and many of them are very successful and earn good salaries. They mostly have Maths to a much higher standard than A level Maths though, normally a phD and Maths / Further Maths at A level.

I used to work in economics / finance and you would often get people who could write and other people who were from a very mathematical background but couldn't write. So the mathematical ones build the ones and the ones who write write and present it. The ones who write generally can't do the Maths to anything like the same standard and vice versa. It's largely because to get the Maths jobs requires Maths and Further Maths at A level and often that is combined with science A levels or Economics where writing tends to be technical.

The person I know with a Cambridge Natural Sciences degree just works with plants and yes she writes reports about them but its a very different job, there's a huge range of jobs under science / engineering. Whereas my husband will be doing things like calculating is a crack in a nuclear power station safe, designing fuel cells in cars, I don't understand it tbh but you see 6 pages of calculations and computer models which run for several days of calculations. Almost everyone they recruit is foreign as the standard of science/ engineering education here they find poor historically and they have a shortage of people able to do the maths.

Obviously the ideal is a genius who does everything but certainly in economics I've never met a person amazing at maths and amazing at writing. The further maths requirement at A level for some courses is definitely worsening the writing issue in that field and there's very much an age thing where the older people tend to be writers, the younger one mathematicians so I don't think its sustainable like that and there needs to be a shift back from that. But in my day it was too writing based especially for girls who were pressured to take non-science /maths subjects - I was amazing at Maths but stopped it at 16. I was lucky Cambridge let me in without it but the lack of maths definitely held me back and in DH's work there are hardly any women. So I'm very happy my daughter goes to a school where they are supportive of girls doing science and maths.

ones = models

Who said they were unemployable? Obviously not. They might be limited in terms of becoming very senior though. If they are a niche employee, they tend to stay there. Overall, embracing writing skills helps with a career.

DS1 must be a bit of an exception then!
He got an A in Further Maths A level, has a Masters in Chem Eng and got a job after graduating last year at KPMG, so is very much steeped in STEM!
He ultimately wants to work for a hedge fund and so currently writes articles for an online finance website.