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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Address fraud for grammar secondary

39 replies

Daaaaa · 26/03/2021 19:41

I am unsure what I should do. I know a family that they live not in a catchment and did a test. Taking a test is fine but they need to move to inner area before certain date. DC had achieved a good result and they were supposed to move the house before xx. XX this year but they are still in their house and DC got the offer from the grammar school. It is highly oversubscribed one and they always have enough from inner ranking.

OP posts:
Mumdiva99 · 26/03/2021 19:48

You have to prove a house move is imminent if you are applying for a different address. Maybe their move has been delayed.

Zodlebud · 26/03/2021 20:23

If you suspect fraud then report it to the Local Authority and then leave them to deal with it.

partyatthepalace · 26/03/2021 20:40

Personally, I would mind my own business.

Original poster
Daaaaa · 26/03/2021 21:04

@Mumdiva99
The hb recently said they are looking for right house to move so it is not delayed so I suspect they used something else to be qualified for inner address.
@Zodlebud
You are right but I don't want to be middle of trouble later. Probably I am the one of two owho knows about this. The other is their primary school.
@partyatthepalace
Seeing 11plus forum for waiting places, this people takes up my brain. As you say, I have my problems to sort out.

OP posts:
LIZS · 26/03/2021 21:06

If they have not yet found a house surely the application was made on non catchment address and a place allocated on score not distance.

Original poster
Daaaaa · 26/03/2021 21:15

I checked the school website and it only takes inner area children. Also it states certain date to move in for qualifying outer applicants.

OP posts:
LIZS · 26/03/2021 21:17

Has that date passed?

Original poster
Daaaaa · 26/03/2021 21:24

Yes over two months.

OP posts:
firedog · 26/03/2021 23:52

But what address did they use as they'll have to prove where they live?

BunsyGirl · 27/03/2021 06:56

My DS1 is going to a grammar with “in catchment” and “out of catchment” places. We have to produce a copy of our Council tax bill proving our address when we register him at the induction day in July. Surely your family member will be required to do something similar?

Cookerhood · 27/03/2021 08:28

I would report them some other child has missed out on a place because of this. I'm sure you can do it anonymously.

prh47bridge · 27/03/2021 08:38

If the children are formerly looked after they would be higher priority for admissions than those living in the inner area. The school may also have other admission categories that trump living in the inner area.

If they have been admitted legitimately you won't do any harm by reporting your concerns. If they have cheated, reporting them should result in them losing the place and it being given to the child who should have got it. You should report them.

Stokey · 27/03/2021 09:29

Sounds like the grammar we're on the waiting list for. We received an email near the end of January with our revised places once all the out of catchment children had been taken off the list. So they must be using an in catchment address to remain on the list, unless they have a deal with the school. If it is the school I'm thinking of, no OOC children get places as the inner catchment is massive. There are FSM places and looked after children but I think they still need to be in catchment, they just have less stringent admission for places - top 900 rather than top 650.

SJaneS49 · 27/03/2021 09:31

Morally this is fraud yes but personally, I’d keep out of it. I get they are taking another IC child’s place but it wouldn’t sit well on my conscience that I’d acted to take away their child’s place, even if I disliked them intensely! As the PP has said, it’s likely they’ll be asked for proof if address so will probably sort itself out anyway.

I do get why you are cross though and you’re not wrong in that!

KnottedFern · 27/03/2021 09:38

How well do you know the family? It doesn't sound like you know the full details. You don't know it's actually fraud yet. Reporting them so their child looses the place won't mean your child will automatically get it, which is what I take from your post, is your issue with this family.

MargosKaftan · 27/03/2021 09:45

My dc1 has just got into a grammar with an inner and outer catchment. We are in the inner catchment, although he also had the grade high enough for the small number of out of catchment places.

We had to prove our address by 11th March. It wasn't good enough to say we lived there, we needed something with address on for us and dc1. (That was tricky given he doesn't get much post!)

Are you certain the only admission criteria once you've passed the 11+ is distance? It couldn't be there are some places for other reasons, because its not good enough to lie about where you live, you need to be able to prove it.

(The school dc1 is going to has 20 places held for outer catchment areas but requiring a much higher pass mark, also children with an ECHP will have priority, theres also other special circumstances they can consider.)

I would do nothing for now. If they are unable to prove they live where they said they did by the next couple of weeks they'll have the offer removed.

prh47bridge · 27/03/2021 10:05

So they must be using an in catchment address to remain on the list, unless they have a deal with the school. If it is the school I'm thinking of, no OOC children get places as the inner catchment is massive

Not necessarily. If their child has an EHCP naming the school or is a formerly looked after child, they are entitled to the place regardless of where they live.

Original poster
Daaaaa · 27/03/2021 10:09

@stokey
Very matching with all details. Can the family have an individual deal with the school?
Well then, I will not even consider to report.

The dc is not looked after or any other category and the school doesn't take any outside catchment children.

If not, they genuinely used fraud address to get the offer as they still live outside catchment.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 27/03/2021 10:11

it wouldn’t sit well on my conscience that I’d acted to take away their child’s place

So it sits fine with you that by not acting you have allowed them to cheat another child out of a place? That certainly wouldn't sit fine with me. And, if they are going to lose the place, it is better for them and their child if they lose it now rather than part way through the autumn term, which is what could happen if this isn't reported.

You don't know it's actually fraud yet

The OP doesn't need to know if it is fraud before reporting. That is for the admission authority to determine.

Are you certain the only admission criteria once you've passed the 11+ is distance

As per my last post, that cannot legally be the only criteria. Children with an EHCP naming the school always get admitted. Unless the school admits purely on highest score (which is clearly not the case here), looked after and formerly looked after children must be admitted.

prh47bridge · 27/03/2021 10:11

Can the family have an individual deal with the school

If they have, that would be a breach of the Admissions Code.

Stokey · 27/03/2021 10:13

By a deal with the school, I guess I mean there could be a circumstance in which they are genuinely moving to inner catchment but the move has been delayed for some reason.... It can take a long time to exchange or complete. If the school were aware of this, they may have made a good faith exception. But I have no idea whether this is possible or what the legal standing would be when their admissions process clearly states you have to move by xx date.

Stokey · 27/03/2021 10:14

Sorry cross posted with @prh47bridge who is a genuine expert on admissions.

SJaneS49 · 27/03/2021 10:33

@prh47bridge, your opinion and one you’re entitled too. As am I mine.

Cookerhood · 27/03/2021 10:41

It would be worse for the child to start & then be found out later & have to leave. As stated above, nothing terrible will happen if there is no fraud & they have a place for other (legal) reasons.

MargosKaftan · 27/03/2021 11:32

There is no way the parents can push it out to September without proving where they live. They will have been asked to provide details already.

You don't know if they have definitely not got an EHCP, very accademically gifted children can have additional needs.

Many families don't want to advertise their child was ever looked after.

There might be circumstances you know nothing about.

If you are determined, report, but be prepared for it to come to nothing if the school already know where they live. You are unlikely to ever find out the truth.