North London - newbie walking to school, assessing risks

[GreenAndSpringy]

Apologies if this should be in the Primary Schools forum, but this is about getting a child ready for Secondary school and seems like a preview of an ongoing subject that belongs here.

Dd began walking to and from school by herself last week. It has been a smooth transition and the walk is the same length as that she will take for her new school in September.

Yesterday a friend sent a link about very local, very recent attempted abductions (with a perpetrator still at large) and I realised that we are not in “the loop” at all regarding current safety advice/procedures.

camdennewjournal.com/article/two-attempted-abductions-of-young-girls-reported-to-police
The article explains that schools officers have been informed but this isn’t information that reached me at all until said friend passed it on. There was certainly no mention of it by dd’s school.

My question is if I’ve jumped the gun here. Dd is already older than many of the children who will be walking to school unaccompanied this September, and other kids in DD’s class already getting to and from school independently, although they seem to all be boys. Do secondary schools somehow prepare children or give pointers on best practice? If so is there a way to access the current advice?

I don't think there is a particular advice offered about walking to school, because it's no different than playing out/walking to the local shop, or tbh different to women walking anywhere. I appreciate areas are different but my DC were doing these and walking to school from the start of Year 5, so your child is certainly likely to be old enough.

The advice you give them is general safety - walk with others if possible, don't talk to strangers, trust gut feel, avoid lonely areas, avoid trouble if you see any e.g. by taking a different route (more likely to be groups of older bullying students than predatory adults). Suggest they run if they feel they are in danger, rather than stand up to attacker. If someone tries to take their mobile phone - just let them etc etc.

I'd agree with PP that my biggest concern is that they will get hit by a car (secondary school children are notorious for not looking when they cross roads) rather than being abducted.

The mobile phone is the subject I cannot reconcile, @PamDemic. I see the pros but the cons outweigh them heavily for me, most people I know who have been physically assaulted over the past few decades involved phone theft.

Luckily, dd’s current route only involves crossing one road (which has a zebra crossing and good visibility), but then she needs to run the gamut of a busy canal tow path. That involves particular risks we’ve discussed how to manage for years.

I think my own risk perception is that with dd being younger looking than average for her age, if someone did attempt to drag her into a car passers by would assume she was a child acting up and not understand that they were witnessing an abduction. My advice to her is to mentally have a couple of words handy (she may not think of what to say in the heat of an emergency) and scream them to leave as little doubt as possible that she was being abducted.

As others have said, I think it's just about being sensible.

FWIW, I have a Y8 who travels to school in Camden from a neighbouring borough (and has done so since the start of year 7). I tell her never to have her phone visible when she's out on the street and to go into a shop if she wants to make a call or text. I do think phone theft is the biggest risk.

The only trouble she's had was in year 7 when some boys at a bus stop said they were going to take her scooter. She thought they were just kidding/winding her up but it made her a bit nervy. She also ran into someone a bit drunk and lairy one time and it spooked her we've agreed that in the winter months if it's dark she'll always travel with a friend or we'll come and meet her.

My Y6 child also walks 10-15 mins to and from school every day (though within the same borough) - she doesn't carry a phone and I haven't every worried about her but her route is shorter and much more busy so it feels safer.

Secondary schools tend to send out school specific advice - eg a number of kids have been mugged near X - or remember don't walk this way alone in the dark etc

For local info the nextdoor website can be good

I can’t see the message you’re replying to about phone theft but wanted to say that not giving your child a phone doesn’t keep them safe from phone-related violence. If anything, it’s better to have a be phone do that you have something to hand over. Just make sure your daughter understands not to get her phone out in public unless absolutely necessary.

Having a phone also means she can tell you when she’s setting off, she can call you if things go wrong and you can if you wish see where she is.

I was expecting to encounter tremendous societal pressure to give dd a phone. Am still not reconciled to accepting it as a necessity.

Some schools it's pretty impossible not to have one.

DD is in Y7 at a London comprehensive. Their homework is all set on an App that is on her phone (and messages me so I know what has been set for what subject, when it's due, if it's been handed in etc), they also have a class WhatsApp group and various other things that would be impossible without one.

They're not allowed to have phones at all in school, but they were used a lot during lockdown just for things like letting someone know you couldn't get into Teams, or the WiFi was down.

DD has a 90 minute journey each way to school so definitely needed a phone for train times, to let me know where she is etc so it was always a given that she would have a smart phone for secondary, but I think it would be very difficult even just socially not to have one in this day and age.

I bought DD a load of those keyring alarms where you pull the pin out and it goes off. She has one on the strap of her phone case and another on her keys.

Amazon have a big range available.

My Y6 will be walking home alone this week without a phone - it's not necessary and doesn't improve safety on the short journey.

I think most of the phone theft (most, not all) is from moped gangs. Not having a mobile phone out while walking is the best way to counter that, as they are very opportunistic.

OP is the route that your daughter walks along very busy? If there are likely to be lots of school children all going the same way then she will probably be safer - they're like shoals of fish.
If she is going to be walking somewhere with fewer people, or where she will be the only school pupil then I would feel less comfortable about that. I think there would probably be less people looking out for her in that situation.

Not at this stage yet with my DC, but from friends with older kids, they recommend asking your child lots of questions about what to do if things go wrong so that they've really thought about it and you agree on house rules (eg is it ok to accept an offer of a lift from a classmate's parent?).

Eg what do you do if you get lost? What do you do if a stranger starts talking to you? What do you do if you see people up ahead you don't like the look of? What do you do if you've gotten home and realise you don't have your keys? What do you do if you are part way home and realise you left something you need behind at school? What do you do if it's pouring with rain? What do you do if a friend's parent offers you a lift home? What do you do if you hurt yourself (eg sprained ankle) on the way home? What do you do if someone demands you phone/wallet/bag?

We found out about the news from local Facebook groups. There is various talk on them about the particular incident.

I really think your DD will need a phone even if it is a Nokia, if she’s going to be walking a fair way, especially down the canal.

The local schools have not given specific advice as far as I’m aware.

My suggestions are to walk away from the kerb and to keep long hair tucked in a top so it can’t be grabbed so easily.

So utterly unfair when they’ve had any semblance of independence taken from them during lockdown and then they have to worry about abductions.

I wouldn’t allow my child to walk unaccompanied down a towpath. They are often unsavoury IMO and even if not, narrow and full of fast cyclists.

@ClaudiaWankleman The towpath dd currently walks along (route will change in September) is very busy and used by all sorts. It isn’t a route used heavily by children although there are a few. Mopeds might be a problem elsewhere, but down on the towpath it would be easy for a cyclist, motorised scooter user or just someone who runs to quickly get away. Since there are no shops or “safe spaces” on the route from which to make a phone call it would only make her a target if she was to try and use one, our area is one with quite desperate people often in altered states who (understandably, alas) just want some cash to stay in that altered state; a snatched phone can serve their purposes. Most aren’t bad people, but a child brandishing a potentially valuable object is an easy temptation. I believe an alarm would serve her better.

Also, separately, a phone would need to be handed in on arrival to school and collected each and every day - an absolute PITA.

Have decided since opening the thread to escort dd along the short area where cars drive down to the canal and to meet her on her way back. The one road she needs to cross is rarely busy, so someone could easily stop there and speed off if they had a mind to. There would be no time for someone to intervene. Dragging a child from the towpath is far from straightforward, it needs to be accessed by stairs or a ramp.

We actually have a real potential danger we have to manage which is separate to what I have mentioned, it’s a threat that is particular to us and rather frightening in its own way. It involves a neighbour with a serious mental illness and we have a police supported cease and desist case against this person. It’s not a topic I want to discuss, but it does affect other decisions I need to make.

That sounds like an awful situation to be in, I’m so sorry.

I’m not quite sure what secondary your daughter will be at but if it’s CSG or Parli they don’t hand phones in at reception.

I can think of a lot of the local “celebrities” for want of a better word , and I don’t think they’d be after a brick phone. No resale value. I may be wrong though.

We’ve been quite relaxed about DD walking by herself but I wouldn’t have her on the canal by herself. Will her journey be in the dark or twilight in winter?. I really hate to have to say it but there are awful things that can happen to people ON the towpath without the worry of being abducted off it. I won’t use it in the dark.

However! Yes to walking by themselves in general. It’s great to get a bit of independence. Am I more wary at the moment? Yes. Does that make me angry and upset? Yup.

As for the phone I think there may be a bonus not to have a smartphone,at least to begin the year with. Not being added to all the WhatsApps would be a bonus. Sneak in with a phone later in the year when people are bored with it and you can give your details to people you’ve come to trust. I’d still go for a brick though...

@Camdenish
DD’s current school obliges students to give in and collect phones.
DD’s current walk is along the canal but won’t be from September, that will be a different route and the twilight/winter considerations will come into play then. We’ve walked the towpath for years, there isn’t much we haven’t seen there - except those condolence flowers marking tragedies, quite a few spots for these on the non-canal routes to school :(
I’ve witnessed phones being snatched quite a few times, the approach is usually snatch first, inspect later. And I know this keenly as there’s a rendezvous point near our house where money/drugs changes hands and “bricks” that aren’t worth fencing are discarded along with emptied handbags and wallets. On this I’m really not going to be swayed, for every problem solved by a phone I see two more exacerbated and I’m never going to forget some of the injuries of people I’ve known who were attacked for their phones, including a badly broken jaw.

Still, this is just as much about perception of risk, and if a family are going to feel safer with there being a phone in DC’s bag, that will translate into a confidence in demeanour and gait which is as important as anything else. The “Dumbo’s Feather” effect is a powerful one, and I do not mean that disparagingly.

Since April we’ve had a chance to try out a small tracker (Vodaphone’s “curve”) and this has provided the solution we were after.

It’s not perfect, there can be a lag of about a minute or two even in the “real-time” function and it really isn’t good enough as a notifier for when it leaves a set zone as the point at which the tracker left this zone and when you get the advisement ping can be a very long time apart.
However, if you are actively looking for where the location is it is accurate enough - at least in centralish London.
Worth noting that you might need to close the app on your phone/tablet and reopen it again to help the current location “refresh” and show on your map.
I also get a message to warn me when the battery is getting low. Lasts nearly a week on a charge and that takes very little time to get it to 100%.
Initial cost was £10 and we have subscribed at £2 a month. Both my husband and I can track her as can my parents once they are given our link.

Why not just get a phone with same thing? We can check where kids are by tracking phones. A Yr7 child with no decent phone would be the exception

Am not the kind of person who caves in to peer pressure.
Am also the kind of person who reads threads before contributing to them.

My husband likes to track my DD (year 6) as she walks home, the app actively alerts him when she arrives at school, leaves schools etc. I honestly don't see the point of tracking. If your child is abducted or attacked- which is my main worry - then the tracking won't help as the tracking device will simply be tossed (along with school bag, coat etc) by the abductor.

Having a confident demeanour is a GOOD thing. It discourages people from thinking you can be victimised. Actually being overconfident on the other hand, is a question of poor preparation by parents. So I agree with the pp who recommended drilling DC on how to respond to a variety of common scenarios so responses are learned. Also making your child very aware of risks. Best thing you can do.

Children and teens will make poor decisions sometimes, whatever you say to them. I remember being afraid cutting through the park in pitch dark when it was pouring with rain, to save ten minutes of my 40 minute walk home from school. I figured in such lousy weather no one would be lurking there, so i did it repeatedly in the winter months. Not a safe thing to do.

My kid has after school activities she goes to and the tracker has already shown its value to us when she got a bit lost going to and from those locations.
It might become less valuable to us in the coming months but whilst she is getting to grips with her new routes and responsibilities it is certainly giving me peace of mind. One of her extra-curricular classes finishes at 7pm and it’s great to be able to meet her at the bus stop (as I’ve said upthread, there’s an ongoing situation with a neighbour that makes it better for her not to arrive here alone)