Independent secondaries on par with Aylesbury grammars in academic

[Lovebrussels]

For DS’s secondary choices, we are looking at both state and indies. While doing some research, we realised that it is not easy to compare schools in terms of academics especially on value add across sectors. Some attempts of looking at GCSE stats surprised us that the Aylesbury grammars results are similar to some mildly selective indies in herts/oxon for example.
Can somebody familiar with the area share their thoughts on this? To make it simple, if we only look at academic rigour, teaching quality, value add and cohort capabilities, which schools would you put at the same level as the Aylesbury grammars? TIA!

It is almost impossible to compare. I have a DD and had the choice between an Aylesbury grammar or a couple of independents (one with academic scholarship).

Class sizes at the grammar were in some cases up to 32. Class sizes at the independent we chose are 18. So how do you assess whether the children getting good grades is down to academic ability or the quality of teaching or the more individual attention? I would guess it’s a combination of all three.

Also remember that the grammars aren’t necessarily full of little Einsteins. Many many children in Bucks are tutored relentlessly to pass and then find they can’t keep up once they are there. This leads to more tutoring outside school. So is it the school getting the results or the external tutoring?

Independent schools don’t have a Progress 8 measure as such. Many will give you an indicator of it, but there’s no hard and fast direct comparison.

So I would look at things like, what % of children are getting the top grades in English and Maths. How many children are taking combined science vs separate sciences (usually only the brightest are allowed to take the three as individual subjects). Are they strong in languages and which languages do they offer? Do they offer a wide range of subjects at GCSE and A level or are they more focussed on the core ones and for the more creative subjects how many children are taking them? An independent by us had only a handful of children take art at GCSE recently. Is that due to lack on interest, perceived poor teaching, parental pressure to focus on EBAC subjects?

You should look at what’s important to your son and make more specific comparisons. If he’s into sport then how much forms part of the normal curriculum, how much happens in free time and does it all fizzle out in exam years?

We chose the independent for the breadth of subject offerings and an extra curricular programme that was the best we had come across. Some children are walking away with 11 grade 9s at GCSE. Some are more 6s and 7s. But I know her personal academic needs are being met and she will reach her potential. That’s information you would struggle to get out of a grammar as there’s just too many kids.

I'm not sure how you determine a lot of those things from just looking at data (which is presumably all you're able to do).
Achievement data tells you mostly about the intake.
Bucks grammars I think take around the top 25% of the ability range.
In North Bucks you'll be outside of the madness of massive competition for private schools so private schools will take a wider ability range than very selective SE/London schools. IIRC schools like Bedford Modern (which is selective) take around the top 15% of the ability range. So you'd expect their results to be not dissimilar to the grammars.
Even non-selective private schools are selective by parents' bank balance. In general they will have a significantly higher ability of intake than your average comp.

But, as you've found, it's nigh on impossible to find relative stats to make balanced views of how good the school, rather than the intake is.
I think you need to take the approach suggested by PP and just think about what you are looking for in a school for you and your son, and choose accordingly!

Thanks both for sharing your thoughts very valid points there. Must admit the question was massively minimised to disregard gender, extra curricular, school ethos, distance and our bank balance! Etc. Which are being considered in parallel.
I previously had the impression that being a selective school, a grammar school is expected to have better results than the non or mildly selective indies but the available GCSE stats didn’t support this hence the question. More specifically for the slightly wider area of focus:

• Schools like St Albans, Abingdon and Oundle (various levels of selectivity) have better results than AGS
• mildly selective schools like Haileybury Berkamstead and Bedford have similar results as AGS.

Wondering if I read the data correctly? Again minimising the impossible mission of comparison and disregard individual differences.

I think you have to consider the academics in reference to your child, and also recognise that schools change.

For example Haileybury is not as selective as the others that you have mentioned, true. But its academic selection seems to have been raised significantly in the last few years, and this will not have filtered through to GCSE results yet.

But I would say the most important part is, what kind of academic environment does your child thive in? i.e. he could be in the middle/ bottom of the pack at St A/Abingdon/ Oundle, but in the top sets at Bedford/ Haileybury/ Berko. What would suit him better? Is he competitive? Does he get demotivated if he feels like he is not performing as well?

To be honest, he will probably get a great education at all of these schools and at the grammars. I think that it is more important that he is happy. And that will have far more to do with the ethos of the school, thoe opportunitites and extra -curricular stuff.

Please don't fall into the trap that you have to go for the most academic school that your child can get into. That is no guarantee that he will succeed. And more importantly that he will be happy and have good mental health.

I know many children who passed the Bucks 11+ but didn’t get a place at St Albans. You would therefore expect the results to be much better.

Haileybury attracts those looking for more than just academics. Saturday morning school and a big boarding cohort (and fees to match all these extras).

Berkhamsted takes children who fail the 11+ and indeed takes children from the bottom sets of our prep school, albeit through a long procrastinated waiting list process. Arguably Berkhamsted is therefore doing a much better job at maximising academic success for the students. However, they do regularly ask children to leave and at random points not just at natural 13 or 16 break points. Again, you can’t see that they are doing this by just comparing results.

So whilst I can see what you are trying to achieve from your question, it really is impossible to answer.

What I can tell you is I stood in that Aylesbury school and asked myself was the independent school worth the £30k a year after tax compared to what I would get there. Absolutely not. Not even if you throw in all the extra curricular and small class sizes. It really wasn’t going to be worth busting a gut to raise the finances to be able to afford it. Then our financial situation changed and it became a no brainer. The independent won even though their results aren’t as good.

I would encourage you to visit all these schools once it’s allowed again. It’s the only way to find out which one is right. We loved the Aylesbury grammar. We hated the other Bucks grammar we could have gone for. We adored some independents and others sent us running to the hills (one a top 20 academically day school). All of the schools you have listed are great schools with good academics. Where your child fits and would be most happy is the only way to chose a school. And remember that your number one choice may well not be the same as that your child’s parents are choosing.

Although the question was almost impossible to answer, all the thoughts are already so helpful guys.
@CaledonianMacBraynec, yes I have heard the same re: Haileybury’s upping its academic threshold. I don’t see DS in the top or even comfortably above average in the likes of St A and Abingdon as it is unless there’s magic potential hidden somewhere waiting to be released!
@Zodlebud, indeed we haven’t got to visit any of these schools yet although so far positive impressions on Abingdon and Haileybury via virtual open days.
As if things aren’t complicated enough, being in North Bucks means any of these schools requires 1 hr+ traveling. Wondered how others manage to get to independent senior schools from this area without moving. The school coach for grammars does not take significantly less time with all the detours and stops.

As people often say if you are good you will succeed anywhere whether it be state or indie. However where decent indies do seem to have an advantage is by getting the less able/more average to a higher standard than they might have achieved in the state system due to smaller class sizes etc. (Disclaimer: yes, there are good and bad schools in both systems).

This will be why you are seeing stats that you did not expect to see.

Thanks @SeasonFinale. Yes interesting finding and discussion for sure.