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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Appeal on school place

27 replies

Mstiva · 11/03/2021 13:22

Hi good afternoon my son has being offered a place at a school which was not on our options of preference which we are undecided on.
We’ve done some research on the school offered and it doesn’t offer the German language which is a shame as we have close family friends from Germany and he’s keen to learn the language.

The school offered offers options at year 10 but the school we had preference for offers options at year 9 which I believe will benefit our son as the 3 year programme of ks4 will provide a greater depth of study.

Any help will be much appreciated thanks

The school offered has children achieving 6 GCSEs on average and school we were hoping for has children averaging a total of 10 GCSEs

OP posts:
Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 13:26

Sorry forgot to mention my son is currently 7th on preferred school waiting list before second allocation date thanks

OP posts:
UserTwice · 11/03/2021 13:57

If you want to appeal, you appeal for the school you want, not against the one you don't. If you can prove that German is very important to you (and unless they are extremely close family friends, your reason sounds a bit nebulous) and only offered by your preferred school, then that's a reason for appeal.

Your other reasons are not grounds for appeal. A 3 year KS4 does not mean greater depth of study, it just means you study the same material over a longer time (and lose out on greater breadth of study as you lose a year of KS3).

Average numbers of GCSEs attained are irrelevant. Unless one school only allows DC to take 6 GCSEs, which would seem highly unlikely, the school attainment is likely to be linked to their intake. The counter argument would be that your child would get a good education at either school.

Credenss · 11/03/2021 14:29

That wouldn't be enough of a reason in my area. If everyone who wanted a particular curriculum subject won an appeal there'd be chaos! Hardly anyone wins appeals. Your reasons for needing a particular school have to outweigh any harm done to other students by the school going over numbers.

Suggest your DC learns German outside of school instead. Plenty do.

Credenss · 11/03/2021 14:29

Oh, and 7th on the waiting list sounds pretty good to me.

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 14:46

Thanks for the reply’s obviously I see where yous are coming from but as you have a choice of preference for school ours was based on the school which provided the KS4 been taught over over the longer time to allow our son more time to study and concentrate on the subject more which will help him in preparation for his future. Yes German can be taught privately but when it is offered in school this would be more beneficial to him. School pan numbers have been breached twice in the previous 3 years intake previously by 9 pupils and 25. The school still runs well under capacity of 96 pupils I understand appeals are hard to win but they are there for a reason. Thanks

OP posts:
catndogslife · 11/03/2021 14:54

It is possible to win an appeal on the grounds that this is the only school that offers a particular subject OP, so of the grounds you have stated the German language one is probably the strongest.
Having said that though, there is such a shortage of MFL teachers at the moment that there are no guarantees that this GCSE will still be available in a few years time.
The 3 year KS4 one wouldn't be effective. OFSTED are not keen on a 3 year kS4 as this can narrow down the subjects studied up to the age of 14 if some are dropped before the end of Y9.

UserTwice · 11/03/2021 15:08

The other thing you can do it look to see if there are any schools that still have places, that you would prefer to send your child to.

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 15:10

The other subject is business studies as it’s something my son is interested in but hasn’t been taught and wouldn’t be taught until options are allowed. If he’s got to fulfil the position at the offered school as it’s not on there curriculum. I’m hoping and optimistic that been 7th on the school waiting list will be enough and get him into the preferred school of choice after the second allocation day on the 22nd March. Thanks

OP posts:
nicknamehelp · 11/03/2021 15:15

schools are switching back to starting options in year 10 as ofstead prefer that so even 1 who currently start in year 9 could very well switch to year 10 before your ds gets to this stage.
As for the language thing its a shame but wouldn't totally put me off a school.
I would look at what you've been offered with an open heart.

HasaDigaEebowai · 11/03/2021 15:22

Business studies isn't a particularly well regarded GCSE and so that's an odd one..

UserTwice · 11/03/2021 15:24

I think it would be very hard to argue a case based on business subjects. Partly because it's not taught until KS4, and partly because not taking GCSE does not impact your life or future options in any way.

(And there is absolutely no guarantees that what a school offers for GCSE now, will be what they offer when your child gets to KS4).

RedGoldAndGreene · 11/03/2021 15:32

You don't need GCSE Business Studies or GCSE Economics to study it at A-level or degree so don't use that as an argument.

Hoppinggreen · 11/03/2021 15:35

The German thing is a bit tenuous, you having German friends doesn’t mean he needs to go to a school that does German

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 15:40

I never once said he NEEDS to go to a school to learn German I said he would like to learn German as he has a keen interest in the language and culture

OP posts:
RedGoldAndGreene · 11/03/2021 15:41

3 year GCSEs aren't seen as good thing any more as it means years 9s having a narrower curriculum than in y8 and shorter ks3.

Can you find out how many people were offered places off the waiting list last year?

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 16:16

I’m still looking for that information the information I’ve found so far is appeals have a success rate of 48% in my local authority although I’m hoping it doesn’t come to an appeal and a place is offered from the waiting list. Thanks

OP posts:
Wearywithteens · 11/03/2021 16:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 16:31

I agreee that’s why I can’t tell them what I want for my child but more why my child needs the different curriculum. That’s before I tell them about social aspects and other personal pointers regarding our school choice but that’s best to be kept away from a forum of this sort and only to be delivered to the appeal panel. I issume there is a lot of movement early on in the school admission and allocation processes

OP posts:
myrtleWilson · 11/03/2021 16:33

What do you mean regarding social aspects and personal pointers as these can be tricky at appeal.

Regarding German, aside from your family friends, has your son had any German lessons?

Credenss · 11/03/2021 17:07

social aspects and other personal pointers regarding our school choice but that’s best to be kept away from a forum of this sort and only to be delivered to the appeal panel.

If there are things of that nature you should put in an Exceptional Circumstances application. You'll need corroborating evidence from a professional though.

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 18:46

I think I’ll address all personal, educational and proof with evidence in my letter to appeal panel and put al my cards on the table and see what they come back with im not interested in a long drawn out process at the end of the day it’s a yes or no then I move on in the direction I’m given

OP posts:
myrtleWilson · 11/03/2021 19:16

There are admissions experts on here like @panelchair @admission who I'm sure will give good advice too

missminimum · 11/03/2021 19:36

At appeal a panel hear your case and also the school's point of view. The school will outline their reasons they can't take him and how taking extra children over their quota, could be at the detriment of the school and existing pupils. You also have to explain to the panel why your son would suffer more if not able to attend than the school would suffer from taking him. The panel then make their decision based which side would be most at risk from their decision. They are not interested in hearing about issues against the school he has been offered. If a child has special educational needs that school can meet over any other or if there are particular social reasons the school has particular ability to help with, the child will have better chance of being successful. He is unlikely to be successful just on the basis he likes the school more due to some of the subjects offered, as they are not significant enough reasons for them to stretch their resources for by taking extra children. If you are going to go to appeal you need to identify how your child could be harmed by not going to that school ( but don't mention the harm that going to his allocated school could cause) Appeals are hard work and an emotional roller coaster. The only other grounds for an appeal would be if you can prove the admission procedure was not followed correctly when considering the application

Original poster
Mstiva · 11/03/2021 19:44

Thanks for that reply it’s very informative no way at all will I be bad mouthing or anything of the sort against the school we have being offered I’m sure they will already be well aware of the challenges a certain school faces. It’s all about my son and what’s best for him academically, personally and mentally a appreciate everyone’s feedback

OP posts:
Wearywithteens · 12/03/2021 22:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.