Learning about London grammars

[BigGreen]

Hello

I was wondering where to get more info about London grammar schools? I'm not from England and am finding the system somewhat confusing.

We're in a situation where there's no boys secondary in our catchment area. The closest school in our borough is not good, in terms of grades, behaviour, polluted location plus a DC died in their care.

The schools in neighbouring boroughs are good and these are actually closer to us, but it seems less certain that DC would get in?

I really want to avoid the in-borough school for obvious reasons and I was lucky to attend a great grammar school myself so would like to learn more. It's possible we could move to a grammar area as well (but have v small budget).

Thanks for any pointing in the right direction.

Are you considering North or South London?

Which part of London are you looking at? Grammars are few and far between and most are incredibly competitive. What year is your DC in? Is he academic? You say there is no boys' secondary in your areas but presumably there are mixed ones. I think bits generally do better at co-ed and girls at single sex.

Start off by looking at the secondary allocations for previous years to see realistically which schools your DC would have got into. And then you can decide whether there are any you wind be happy with. If you are considering moving to a grammar catchment area, make sure you are also in catchment for a good secondary as there is no guarantee of grammar places.

Sorry boys do better in co-ed

Options are:
QE Boys and Latymer (co-ed) - North London
Tiffin - Kingston
Wilson's, Sutton Grammar and Wallington County in Grammar - Sutton
There are also ones in Bexley, Bromley and Redbridge

Thanks for all the info.

Am I right that only some of the grammars are whole of London catchment? E.g. we'd have to move to Redbridge or Sutton to access the local grammars?

We're in zone 2 East London and DS is only in yr 2 - but if we want to move we'd like to plan that now and move next summer. Also since homeschooling I've realised that DS's current primary is very relaxed, e.g. spellings are just for copying out and none get learned off by heart. So if we were thinking of a grammar I'd start doing some extra work with him now, rather than waiting until closer to the exams.

There's only a girls school in our catchment (shame we didn't have a girl as it is excellent). I don't have any opinion on single sex vs co-ed.

I mainly know about the Sutton Grammars.
You register for the tests in the summer term of Year 5 to sit them in Autumn term of Year 6.
The SET is multiple choice Maths and English and is the first stage for Wilson's and Sutton Grammar, and the only exam for Wallington County Grammar. W and SGS then have a second stage exam for those who pass the first: English is an extended writing task and Maths is open answer.

W has no catchment at all and the other two have limited in-catchment places so people do so the exams with the intention of moving if they get a place, if they need to. But if you're thinking of moving before, there are also several good Comps in the London Borough of Sutton. We quite liked Glenthorne.

@TomorrowOnce

Options are: QE Boys and Latymer (co-ed) - North London Tiffin - Kingston Wilson's, Sutton Grammar and Wallington County in Grammar - Sutton There are also ones in Bexley, Bromley and Redbridge

You forgot Dartford Grammar where Mick Jagger went!

You don't have to apply to just Secondary schools that are in your borough. You can apply anywhere. The only issue is it will depend on each school admissions criteria and most have distance fairly high up the list so the closer you live the better chance of a place. Most schools don't have a 'catchment' - it's distance which means it will vary from year to year depending on how many people apply rather than living in a specific street.

You forgot Dartford Grammar where Mick Jagger went!

Which is in Kent, not a London borough

Don't pin all your hopes on your DS getting a grammar school place. Entry is extremely compete so even very bright kids have the risk of not making the cut.
If you're happy to move, then move to an area where the comprehensives are good. That way, if your DS doesn't get a grammar place, then there be a perfectly acceptable alternative.

You may well already be in the catchment for Latymer - it has several E postcodes including E2, E4, E5, E8, E9 & E17. But around 2,60O applicants this year for 192 places (although not all of those are serious, over 40% are out of catchment).

Are you sure there are no other mixed schools within your area? Secondary schools have wide catchments. For example, if you were in Clapton, there's Clapton girls but you'd also be in catchment for some Hackney schools, possibly Mossbourne?

Y2 is too early to be doing prep IMO. Just encourage fluency in reading. I don't think relaxed homework at that stage is a bad thing. My Y6 still only gets Maths & spelling each week.

@ChloeDecker

You forgot Dartford Grammar where Mick Jagger went!

Which is in Kent, not a London borough

I aware of that. I went the girls' grammar there but as it's only 18 miles from good train links and the op is prepared to relocate I thought it worth a mention.

Thank you for all the insights, it's much appreciated.

It's difficult to understand the catchment possibilities for some of the schools near us, e.g. our closest secondary school as the crow flies is Mossbourne but the application pack just says that your address will be put into a GIS system and ranked, there's no actual info about how widely extended the catchment areas are. We're still 1 mile away which seems pretty far? We seem to live in a part of East London with a real dearth of secondaries.

In addition, Mossbourne get all pupils to sit a CAT test and then band them so that the school admits a range of pupils from all abilities. It seems tricky to reliably understand whether DS would get in or not as there's several factors in play.

The application numbers for somewhere like Latymer are rather sobering! DS has a real love of learning, which is beautiful. He's not someone with noticeably super charged fluid intelligence, though if you know what I mean. Not sure he'd fare the best in that level of competition.

blowonitthen would you recommend Sutton as a place to live? It's somewhere I've looked at a few times.

@BigGreen there is information on the Hackney Council website about how places are allocated. If you look for secondary school admissions, it should be under there. The CAT system is Hackney wide and does add a level of complexity to the whole procedure. Worth having a chat to other parents/teachers at your primary as ones with older children will have a better idea of the outcomes in your area.

I aware of that. I went the girls' grammar there but as it's only 18 miles from good train links and the op is prepared to relocate I thought it worth a mention.

And I am aware of that too. But the OP was specifically about London Grammars, so my point was that the poster you replied to, didn’t forget anything!

Extra suggestions for some of the Kent grammars is useful yes, if the OP wants to move etc. You are correct there.

Well I'll consider myself thoroughly chastised and I'll take myself off to the naughty corner.

@BigGreen some parts of Sutton are ok (I used to live/work there) but a lot of it is tired and a bit run down

@BigGreen London Borough of Sutton, yes - it has some very nice places to live. Actual town centre Sutton (unfortunately of the same name so people think of the high street when discussions of the borough come up) wouldn't be my choice, but the borough is definitely worth a look. Low crime and good schools. Good links to London and easy access to countryside. I live Cheam way but closer to the boys' schools, parts of Carshalton are nice.

A small but hopefully relevant hijack about best comprehensive options for a boy in London? Grammars won’t work out for everyone so where do you stand the best chance of a solid comprehensive?

Im north London and my son is young but lots of good schools for girls but rather fewer for boys.

@TomorrowOnce “ Options are:
QE Boys and Latymer (co-ed) - North London
Tiffin - Kingston
Wilson's, Sutton Grammar and Wallington County in Grammar - Sutton
There are also ones in Bexley, Bromley and Redbridge”

You forgot Dame Alice Owen. Some Islington postcodes are in DAO’s catchment

Thanks @CandyLeBonBon and @XelaM

Yes - there are ones in Kent that are accessible to Londoners.

DAO - not necessarily grammar; partially selective - but many from choose this over the grammars due to location, etc etc. DAO is indeed the no 1 Comp/Partially-selective school in the UK?/England (accdg to the Times).

There are other partially selective schools as well in the NW, Watford

Also.. Mill Hill County High School is partially selective on aptitude, music or dance

@Misbeehived I'd talk to other people in your area, see where their sons are going and look on the council website. We have two mixed schools near me that are both rated Good by Ofsted, but their stats are nothing special. Still all the parents I know whose kids go to them are very positive and seen very happy, while I get far more mixed opinions about the outstanding girls school with better stats.
If you're going purely on stats, there are some London academies who are getting amazing results. Places like Mossbourne in Hackney & London Academy of Excellence in Stratford are ones I know but not sure in North London.

Ashmole, Alexandra Park and Fortismere schools in North London are excellent comprehensives.

Thanks @Stokey and @orangeblossom

He’s still v young but bright as a button and has a good learning attitude. I’d prefer he wasn’t in a hothouse environment even if he achieved the grades and ideally I prefer mixed comprehensive but unfortunately our local is terrible on results and behaviour (eg stabbing) so will never be an option. Obviously it’s a few years away for us and things change etc, but I’d feel more comfortable if I knew the next few years meant a house move for APS; or getting promoted quickly to comfortably private educate; or accepting he’ll be cramming from age 8 to aim for a selective school or whatever else back up options are. 😬 Thanks for responding though 😊