Need advice on what I can and can't say re issues with other DC and parents

[TipToingParent]

I have a telephone call with my secondary school next week, picking up where we left off before lockdown. One of the DC accused my DS and other DC of bullying via exclusion.

DC and friends have not said or done anything nasty to the boy. They just don't hang out that much anymore. Now that the children are older many of the parents allow them to take public transport to the secondary school which is further away. Door to door is about 45 mins. If you look at my DS's group of friends at school, there are 6 of them that travel together. Once they arrive in the town they wander to the school, maybe get a drink or snack and on the way home do similar. Without teachers around it is a great time for them. Don't worry they don't cause any trouble! My DS has told me this is his social time and he cherishes it. Sometimes, in the warmer months and longer nights, they go for dinner, bowling or the cinema before coming home. All pre lockdown! All this has given me grey hairs of course but I am in close contact with the other parents and we have plans B and C for any problems. I am really proud of how independent and mature my DC has become.

The other boy's parents do not allow him to do any of this. According to them, we are all irresponsible for letting our DC go to secondary alone and they drive him there and back. The boy sees them meet after school to walk together and has probably overheard their plans. He has not been excluded. He has not been allowed the opportunity to be included. The DC hung out with him at their junior school, there are no issues there.

The boy's parents have complained to the school that he has been excluded from the group and this is bullying. From my POV this is a problem they have created themselves and I feel sorry for him. Also, this is a self-perpetuating problem because now my DS and his friends want to stay away from him in case they get into further trouble.

When I chat to the school next week what I really want to say is that these parents have created this problem themselves and that I feel sorry for the DC but of course I can't say that.

How should I approach this? My DS is not a bully and TBH I am annoyed that I now have the very difficult task of proving that he is not one.

What do the boy’s parents expect the group to do? Arrange separate activities they can drive him to and from?

Are you sure it only relates to out of school time?

Sorry, realised I didn’t answer your question
I would keep it factual. The group are doing things the boy is not currently allowed to do. They will not be stopping doing these things when regulations allow as you accept the risks for your DS. Nothing is being said or done to the boy at school, he is not being targeted in any way by your DS.
I wouldn’t say you feel sorry for the boy. Let the school draw their own conclusions about his parents restricting his social freedom. There’s no right or wrong there, really. You accept any risk, his parents don’t.

But LIZS the boys friendships have presumably become closer because they spend more time together out of school. Friendships change (especially in what sound like fairly young boys - I’m assuming first couple of years of secondary from description) It doesn’t mean they are excluded or bullying the other boy - just that the friendships have moved on. And the fact that they feel they are in trouble because of him, means they will keep further away from him. Trying to force children to maintain junior school friendships is doomed to resentment.

I think you can share your understanding of the situation with the school and leg them investigate further if it is a factor in the problems (obviously sounds like is is a major factor but let school decide that). I would couch it as your understanding is this boy isn't allowed to do some of the activities your DC and others are and you feel this has led to the current problems - and say them getting in trouble makes them more like to steer clear of this boy as PP have said. I would also make sure you're clear that you're willing to listen to other concerns and aren't blaming everything on the boy not being allowed to do the same things as your DC.

I would say the "excluding" seems to stem from the group of boys travelling together and doing activities outside of school that the other boy isn't allowed to join in with.

That the group who travel together have naturally grown closer, and that isn't not really fair to expect them to include all the other boys from school in their social plans. That while they had all been close at primary school, the differences in how they travel to school and what they are allowed to do outside of school have meant your ds hasn't stayed close friends with the other boy and you don't feel comfortable with the idea of forcing a friendship when it seems to have naturally ended.

But you will of course say he must be polite to everyone and if he was holding an event where everyone from the class was invited, then it wouldn't be ok to leave our just one or two people.

Are you sure it only relates to out-of-school time?

No, I think it is more about school time. The commuting group is in the same form so when they get to school they still hang out together but I don't think it is an impenetrable clique as my DC talks about lots of other DC he hangs out with at school. He is one of those DC who hangs out with loads of people and doesn't have a best friend.

As mentioned, the DC don't think they excluded him but they certainly are not that keen on hanging out now they have a complaint against them.

Arrange separate activities they can drive him to and from?

Actually early on the group (boys and girls, so it is not a pack of lads) invited him and he was going to go and have his parents pick him up afterwards if that was more acceptable and on the day he said he wasn't allowed to go. After that, I don't think they asked him again.

Poor kid, I feel sorry for him but I don’t think it’s your son’s fault OP, just different parenting choices.

Its very unfair to expect children to be equally friends with everyone.

Its different rather if these are the only kids going from your town to the school and they were all friends before, but friendship groups change.

I would say its reasonable for them to treat him the same as the other children in the class.

I think the school will know rightly what’s going on. On that basis I’d say brace yourself in case there is more going on than you think- but if it’s just as you describe then the school are probably just going to be acting as mediators in this instance.

Definitely remain calm, reasonable, and supportive of the school- but there would be nothing wrong with stating what you’ve said here, and expressing your concern about your son being labelled a bully.

I’ve had to deal with situations like this before and, to be honest, it was so, so nice dealing with lovely kids and lovely parents where there had just been a slight friendship issue. And that’s what this is, by the way. If it was a major concern in the school, it would have been dealt with even during lockdown. I suspect they’re seeing it as being exactly like you’ve outlined.

Do we presume OP is in Aus or China coz I don't know where else allows bowling.

I guess the statements OP must make are...

"Their son is welcome to join my son & friends...
on their walk
at the shops
at bowling
meals out"

etc .

The honest answer is that you don’t know what goes on in school. I absolutely understand that the children who are more independent have grown closer but the knock on impact of that may well be

• there’s no point you sitting with us at lunch as we are talking about when we go out on the weekend and you aren’t allowed to come

• why doesn’t your mum let you get the bus does she think you’re a baby

• the children talking about all sorts of things he’s not involved in and him feeling left out

The nicest kids will still say things and exclude children even if they don’t mean to so I wouldn’t be so sure that this group are as innocent as they seem! The mother doesn’t sound like she has helped the situation but equally there may be more to it than your child is sharing - there usually is.

Trying to force children to maintain junior school friendships is doomed to resentment.

This is part of the issue. He had hard times at junior school as he joined really late after we moved cities and it was hard to penetrate friendships that had developed since nursery. Senior school was a fresh start and he made new friends and got to know others better from junior school. He is really happy.

Now this. Seems unfair.

I think being factual is the way forward.
The school will know full well that primary school friendships often drift in secondary and that different kids have different rules about out of school time. It's not exclusionary to discuss these plans at lunch. If there were new group chats that he wasn't part of or they started whispering then that would be a new allegation waiting to happen.

I think the boy needs help to find new friends or the mum needs to consider whether her rules are reasonable or too strict. I know from experience that rules can differ greatly. My dd was so relieved when her friends parents finally let their dd take public transport. If this boy is the oldest child or only child then she might need someone to give her a reality check about how things are very different in secondary. It's not a continuation of primary in the social sense as the kids meet new people, develop new interests and puberty changes their temperament. I have 3 in secondary and all of them had different friends at the end of y7 compared to end of y6.

Tbh I'm personally surprised that this boy doesn't have a certain reputation by having his mum go to school about this. The answer is clearly for this boy to find some new friends with similar parents.

I would be personally questioning whether my child (or you) should be in contact with someone who has such strong opinions on my parenting. Continually reporting my child for these things is obviously not going to help the boys be friends.

I suspect there is more to this than you perhaps know OP. I doubt it would have got this far if there wasn’t.
It might not be intentional bullying but as Atrixie said there maybe an element of unkind things being said and and excluding from “the gang”.
Wait and see what the school say.

I don’t know Missy. I set up the call, not them.
I hardly ever bother the school. But if you’ve spoken to my son and used the words excluding and bullying, then as I said to the school in my email, I should be informed about that.

I set up the call to nip this in the bud.

I think I would
Ask for clarification on what your DC has been accused of. Specifics. And listen.
And then I would firstly see if that changed my perspective, or if it should.

And then, if not, I would clearly say to the school:

1. that the DCS friendships are forged through shared experience outside as well as inside school and that you understand the other child is not allowed by their parents to take part
2. that your DC is now understandably wary having been accused of bullying and exclusion.

Part of me thinks not being allowed once and then never being asked again might feel hard on the poor kid, but I'm guessing we are talking about young teens?

Yes, young teens.

A different perspective, I was that child who wasn't allowed to go to school on public transport or anywhere alone whereas my friends were... It is difficult to be that child as naturally groups bond through shared time & experiences, but it wasn't 'fatal' to my friendships ( let's face it kids have many other means of connecting today - phones etc that didn't exist when I was in this spot. I wouldn't call this bullying...

If this is the only issue, it's likely the child in question has shared their upset at growing apart and the parents are now reacting disproportionately. If not, be prepared that there may be a lot more to this than you know.

@TipToingParent - how did it go?