Advice reg GCSEs choices (ICT or Classics)

[Kerry987]

DD has to choose her GCSEs subjects next week. She initially thought she will do DT, Geography, French and ICT; however she is now having doubts about ICT and is considering Classics instead. She asked me for advice; I did not grow up in the UK and feel unable to provide advice. I think she has to study something she enjoys, she now thinks she is not sure how good she is at ICT, they also said there was at least 30% of independent study so I think that put her off; she also said her ICT teacher is not the best.

How does this impact her A level and future university choices?

She is very creative and her favourite subject is DT, I see her pursuing a career in graphic design or something similar.

I would be grateful for any advice.

Thank you. She has no idea what she would like to study at University yet. The GD is the sort of career I see her doing, but not something she has said.

DT is definitely her strongest subject so perhaps Art and DT together will be too much. She is really not sure about Arts.

It is tricky because her career choice depends on her A levels and her A level choices depend on her GCSEs and they are still very young to decide what career they want to do.

Could She choose more and drop one later?

OP if she likes art and may want a career in that area, she should do that. Not doing classical civilisation will certainly not close any doors, as the majority of schools IME don't even offer it.

You can't usually drop subjects at GCSE as you would then have space on your timetable.

Luckily it's quite tricky to close doors with GCSE as everyone has to take the core subjects. Apart from those, and subjects like MFL or geography, there are not many things you cannot pick up at A level (I know of people who have done history without GCSE even). But I would put DT and art in that category so if she likes art she should take it. If not, then not of course.

@Kerry987

Could She choose more and drop one later?

Schools generally timetable based on a set number of GCSE subjects, so I would think they would be very unlikely to agree to this (school suggesting a student drops a subject later because they are not coping and/or need extra help in core subjects sometimes happens). She would have to be prepared to study one independently and/or go to a school that offers subjects "out of hours".

It really depends on the admission criteria of different 6th forms as to what grades she needs.

Of the schools and colleges my two applied to

School 1 - Private selective 6th Form. - 8 GCSE Grade 5 & with at least 4/5 at Grade 6. Grade 6 in subjects to be studied (or a related subject) Grade 7 was needed to take maths.

School 2 - State school with 6th form - 8 GCSE grade 5 with at least 3 at Grade 6. Grade 7 needed for maths & science & Grade 6 for other subjects.

F E College - 5 GCSE at Grade 5 or above. Grade 6 for maths/science

If a DC likes art and DT they can cope. Not doing art is closing doors. I think you need to talk to DD about careers because trying to do A level art without gcse is difficult. By not doing computer science or class civ makes no difference regarding picking them up at A level. However she needs to think about possible careers and keep options open. Lots of DC can manage these two subjects for obvious reasons. They need them!

DS hadn't done Art at GCSE but was then allowed to do an Art & Design A level (Photography) on the basis of his GCSE DT and an interview and examples of his (hobby-based) photography work.

If she does both Art and DT she will just need to be super organised, as the project work tends to hit at the same time! Not impossible though.

If she didn't do Art for GCSE/A Level, but did DT, she could probably still get onto a one-year Art Foundation course (which are funded) before going to uni.

DS had 3 creative subjects, but not Art, at A level and got offers for Graphic Design from all the unis he applied for, including Leeds, Loughborough and Reading.

@OnlyTeaForMe

DS hadn't done Art at GCSE but was then allowed to do an Art & Design A level (Photography) on the basis of his GCSE DT and an interview and examples of his (hobby-based) photography work.

If she does both Art and DT she will just need to be super organised, as the project work tends to hit at the same time! Not impossible though.

If she didn't do Art for GCSE/A Level, but did DT, she could probably still get onto a one-year Art Foundation course (which are funded) before going to uni.

DS had 3 creative subjects, but not Art, at A level and got offers for Graphic Design from all the unis he applied for, including Leeds, Loughborough and Reading.

Thank you. That is good to know. Getting concerned that if she does not do arts she may be closing doors; but I do not want to push her to do something she is not sure about it.

I think it is really early for them to decide what career they want to do. I didn't know until about 18.

She doesn't need to decide on a career tho. Tbh if she is not really keen on art then it is not a good GCSE choice as it is a lot of work outside lessons - great if you love it but not if you don't.

If she doesn't want to carry on with art, then she probably won't want to do an arts based career - if that makes sense?

What I mean is, DD doesn't have a passion for history so she didn't do history GCSE, so she can't be a history teacher! but as she doesn't love history she wouldn't want to do that anyway - does that make sense?

I think you are spot on @clary.

It was the op who talked about Graphic Design.

Photography A level is frequently taught without Art gcse. It doesn’t have much crossover. Art A level does. Far more about techniques and a broader syllabus.

As I suggested above, ask DD what she wants because if she doesn’t want Graphic Design then she has a wider choice.

If she doesn't want to carry on with art, then she probably won't want to do an arts based career - if that makes sense?

Not sure if I fully agree with this to be honest. Art at GCSE often comes from a fine arts background (painting/drawing), which doesn't appeal to everyone. However an interest in DT is often combined with 3 D drawing and design/ CAD etc and the technology side easily links to computer-based graphic design /photoshop etc which is still heavily arts-based. Lots of brilliant graphic designers can't draw or paint, but have an excellent eye for colour and composition/ typography etc.

@OnlyTeaForMe

If she doesn't want to carry on with art, then she probably won't want to do an arts based career - if that makes sense?

Not sure if I fully agree with this to be honest. Art at GCSE often comes from a fine arts background (painting/drawing), which doesn't appeal to everyone. However an interest in DT is often combined with 3 D drawing and design/ CAD etc and the technology side easily links to computer-based graphic design /photoshop etc which is still heavily arts-based. Lots of brilliant graphic designers can't draw or paint, but have an excellent eye for colour and composition/ typography etc.

If I am honest (and I was earlier) this is far from my specialism - so help me out here; those DT-loving graphic designers - did they do art GCSE? Did they need to do it?

My point was really more based around my own knowledge - people who want to teach MFL need to study it for GCSE - if they don't want to do that then they probably don't want to be an MFL teacher.

My niece is doing graphics A level having done graphics in DT at GCSE.

She had an offer from a different 6th form (more academic) who were happy to let her do Art A level with her DT GCSE; but she decided for the graphics course (and staying in one place) in the end.

So DT may not close doors for later on.

I don’t think DT closes doors but lots of designers are also able to look at a variety of art media to express themselves. DT on its own limits this somewhat. It doesn’t necessarily help with preparing a portfolio and certainly a DC doing Art Foundation prior to a Design degree leans towards a DC doing some formal art teaching.

I thought there was a form of DT in graphics, plus there is iMedia (BTEC?). Big DS did that iMedia course & it has helped a lot for instance he is into 3D printing nowadays, which means working with that CAD software.

iMedia or DT graphics would fit with interests OP described.

@clary those DT-loving graphic designers - did they do art GCSE? Did they need to do it?

This was the point I was making to the OP - I don't believe they do, provided they can demonstrate artistic talent in some other way.

Most uni graphic design courses will recruit on the basis of 3 A levels + portfolio design and interview.

DS2's portfolio comprised work from the following:

• his DT A level product designs
• images he took for his A level photography (including those altered in Photoshop)
• thumbnails designs from his YouTube channel
• flyers/posters he'd done to help promote school events

If the OP's DD decided to pursue Graphic Design I'm sure she would be fine if she had good A levels and a portfolio with DT designs and other material showing artistic skill.

Thank you very much for all he advice. It has been very helpful. It is important DD chooses subjects she is good at and also enjoys but are not going to Jeopardize future A level or university choices.

@OnlyTeaForMe that's great, very clear thanks.

Op you need to be aware that inevitably her GCSE choices will make some A level choices impossible; but the point I am making (in a rather laboured way!) is that's not an issue if she chooses subjects she enjoys.

I've had two DC go through the UCAS process now, and I would say that there is a lot more flexibility in admissions that you imagine, from reading posts on MN, where everyone seems obsessed with facilitating subjects etc!

For STEM subjects, you obviously need to choose science/maths as these provide the groundwork for a future degree.
In the arts and humanities, however, this is much more flexible. A university will just need to know that a student has an ability to organise thoughts and information/ make a coherent argument/write an essay etc. This could be equally demonstrated across subjects like Eng Lit/History/Politics/ClassCivs.

Even if a student decides during A levels that they should have taken another subject to get onto a particular course, there are always options like a Foundation Course to 'skill up' before a degree.

I always say to younger family members, choose what you're good at and enjoy to get the highest grades possible and decide on an approximate 'direction of travel': Science/ Arts/Humanites. It can all be fine-tuned along the way.
My god daughter graduated in History and now wants to do conservation work, but lacks A level Chemistry, so she's been doing a distance learning online course during lockdown.

No one mentioned facilitating subjects on this thread. DT, Art, Class Civ etc are just options at gcse.

@PresentingPercy

No one mentioned facilitating subjects on this thread. DT, Art, Class Civ etc are just options at gcse.

No, but I see it often on MN and it can result in people being wrongly informed about the true reality of the entrance requirements for many uni courses - especially in the arts and humanities. The OP was worried about her DD's GCSE choices severely limiting her pursuing a creative/arts degree later. They are extremely unlikely to, given what she has said.

The lack of art A level can mean DC must do an art foundation course. It’s very important to look at what is required instead of guessing. Art isn’t facilitating by the way!

I notice it was the op that mentioned Graphic Design. The DD doesn’t know what she wants. It’s still true that Art A level keeps lots of doors open for creative courses. Eg fashion design. It’s a difficult Art A level to do without the GCSE. Therefore it’s best to talk to DD about careers and see if Art might be needed or not.

The big issue here is having to make decisions in year 8. By this time in y9, there’s a further year of maturity and trying out subjects.

The stem subjects are compulsory but art, MFLs and humanities are not but are also difficult to pick up again if later needed for a degree/career. Year 8 is too young to know what you might like to do and what, ideally, you might need to do it.

@PresentingPercy - I can see you're very pro GCSE/A Level Art! Are you an Art teacher by any chance?

To be fair, the OP hasn't suggested her DD has considered Art GCSE at all, but the OP has herself suggested that the DD might possibly be interested in Graphic Design so wanted to check that NOT doing Art wouldn't be a problem.

Most Graphic Design courses will want to see evidence in an application of artistic skills, but this could come from a wide range of Art & Design subjects, including fine art, photography, graphics communication etc.

But as you say, it's best to try to get her DD to talk about where her interests really lie.

No, not an art teacher. But I am aware that some graphics design courses want an art foundation course and expression in art is worthwhile. Some A levels can be done without Art gcse, eg A level photography. I assume graphics communication can. However the best foundation for these at A level is probably art gcse. Art is a springboard. It leads DC n directions that suit them. The op doesn’t know exactly where this might be. She thinks maybe graphic design. That might not be the case. So doing art, of a DC is interested in any art based or design career, makes sense.

Thank you. Couldn't convince DD to do art. She choose DT, Geography, French and Classical Civilisations. I think it will be a better balance as there are lots of other exams to take.

I was looking at Kingston University and I believe you can do one year foundation course in Art if you don't have an art GCSEs, so hopefully that is an option if she does decide to go for a career where Arts is needed as a foundation. Difficult to know when she is still 13.