State school results at A*/A

[ThoughtExperiment]

Hi all, sorry I’m probably being really dense but can any point me in the direction of a table which shows how state schools performed at GCSE and/or A-level in terms of what percentage of grades were A*/A (or 9/8/7 or whatever it is now). I can find lots of info on these stats for independents but struggling to see the same stats for state schools. I don’t subscribe to the Times so if it’s on there I can’t see it! Thanks in advance.

you need to go on the 'compare schools' function, then it comes up when you compare lots of schools. Not a table as such as progress 8 is the metric used.

Note that those stats won't necessarily tell you how good the school is, rather the quality of the intake.

I don't think the 9-7 at GCSE statistics measure is one that state schools usually produce. An individual school might give you more detailed results.

9-7% is not typically compiled for state schools. It’s a pretty meaningless measure taken alone anyway.
If what you want to know is how well a school does with more able students then your best bet is probably to use the government comparison tables and just compare results for high prior attainment students.
If you look at the attainment 8 score it gives you an idea of the average grades that those students achieved. There are 8 subjects included for each child and English and maths get double counted. So if you divide the score by 10 it gives you a rough approximation of the average grade achieved by students in the high prior attainment band. The progress 8 score is more useful in my view. It tells you how the results of students in the high prior attainment band achieved when compared to others with the same scores nationally. Some super-selective schools have very high average grades for their HPA students but quite modest progress scores, where grammars in full grammar areas and good comprehensives may have lower average grades but better progress. In short, it’s a lot less impressive to get an average grade of 8.0 for your HPA students if they are all from the top 2% of the range of prior attainment than it is to get that same score with kids who are spread across the whole top third or so that makes up the band. Knowing the progress score is a much better way of working out whether your individual child is likely to end up in the % that get grades 7-9.

A good way is by looking at local press releases after results day the previous year. My school is high achieving, so in our press release we state the figures as we are proud of them. Other schools in the area, it’s easy to read between the lines when they keep key figures from their press release.

@ThoughtExperiment
Which schools are you interested in? - Can try to check.
Most comps will have much lower 9/8/7 GCSEs because of the intake.
What would be great if they publish the 9/8/7 in the top 25%/50% (top sets) -- or equivalent to Band A/B if they did bandings prior to Year 7 entry.

My school is high achieving, so in our press release we state the figures as we are proud of them.

State schools are often more proud of results that aren't 7/8/9s.

If a child comes in at age 11 having achieved dreadful SATs, and ends up with a bunch of 5s at GCSE I'd argue that's as, if not more, impressive than a high achieving child coming in and getting a bunch of 9-7s.

What most people want to understand from league tables is "how will a child like mine likely perform if they go to this school". And that's nigh on impossible to work out. Even if you had a high performing child and a full list of 9-7 results, you would need to superimpose them against prior attainment to understand what they really meant. And even then you wouldn't know individual circumstances which would have skewed these.
These sorts of tables, I always think, are most interesting if they don't provide the results you'd expect. Very selective school gets very good results doesn't really surprise anyone. Very selective school = only mildly good results would perhaps be a cause for concern; whereas genuine comprehensive school with full range of ability getting pretty good results even if not remotely near the very selective school would be a reason to head there.

Even if you had a high performing child and a full list of 9-7 results, you would need to superimpose them against prior attainment to understand what they really meant.

That’s effectively what looking at progress 8 for the HPA pupils tells you. It tells you how pupils in the higher ability band performed compared to students with the same scores at other schools. Let’s, for sake of keeping it simple say that your child has a PA score that corresponds to a national average of 77777 77777 for the 10 grades in progress 8 (8 plus the double-weighting for Eng and Maths). In a school with a P8 of 0.0 that’s roughly what you’d expect a child like that to get. In a school where the score is -0.5, you’d expect them to get 66666 77777. In a school where it’s +0.5 you’d expect them to get 77777 88888. If it’s +1.0 then you’d expect them to get 88888 88888.

Thanks for all the responses - I have taken all points on board, particularly in regards to prior attainment. I know it may not be that helpful a measure on its own but it’s another piece of the puzzle that adds to the big picture. State-wise we are considering a super selective grammar and our local decent comp, so obviously the difference in top grades is likely to be huge, but for the comp in particular I’d like to know the difference between the number of students achieving eg 5Cs at GCSE and those getting a good spread of A*/A. I’ll have a look at filtering the gov data by prior attainment and see what that throws up. Thanks again for all the input.

And all the info on attainment8 and progress8 was very helpful, thank you

That’s effectively what looking at progress 8 for the HPA pupils tells you

unfortunately Progress 8 tends not be available for independent schools, so comparing across the board in a simple way is not ... er "simple"!!

In my more cynical moments I do wonder if the reason there is no easy way to compare all schools, taking into account prior attainment/background/other contributing factors is because it might throw up data that doesn't fit the narrative of some schools. I know that studies are done on this, but they are not generally available in a format for a parent to digest at an individual student/school level.

@UserTwice couldn’t agree more about the lack of comparable state and independent data. It’s clear that this lack of comparability benefits the independent sector. They can only be compared on raw outcomes, which are likely to be very high, and not on progress, which would often be less impressive.

Also, the results don't show you what's going on with behind the scenes tutoring of youngsters (which is prevalent but significantly higher in London than elsewhere). A lot of youngsters of ambitious and affluent parents, even in the state sector, will receive tutoring to get top grades or boost grades in weaker subjects!

The Times Parent Power provides these statistics for independent and state schools:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/best-uk-schools-guide-parent-power-tr95xdztg

It's behind a paywall though so you'll need a subscription.

You can compare independent schools and state schools progress scores between GCSEs and A-levels on the government website. Many independent school students don't sit year 6 SATs which is why progress 8 data for KS2 to GSCE isn't available.

I agree with others that progress scores should hold as much if not more weight given the mixed ability intake of state schools.