Scholarship at 11+ but not 13+

[PenceyPrep]

DD is in Y6 and we have (probably...) picked the secondary school that she will eventually go to. This school has an 11+ and 13+ entry. We couldn't decide whether she should go at 11 or 13, but put her in for 11+ as that was the first deadline.

The 11+ test (ISEB) was in December and she was offered a place with a substantial academic scholarship. However, we have decided that, on reflection, we don't want her going at 11, so we asked to have her transferred to the 13+ process. The school were great, and agreed to do this and waived her sitting the 13+ pre-tests that were due to take place a few weeks later.

We have now had a letter offering her an unconditional place at 13+...but no mention of a scholarship. Looking at their website, scholarships are not normally decided until end of Year 8, when common entrance (or school's own version if child is not at a prep) is taken. However, the offer letter is v clear that DD's place is unconditional - she will not be asked to take any more tests.

I'm wondering whether to mention the scholarship to the school...? It could well be that she just wasn't as strong against the 13+ crowd, but it seems odd - their 11+ entry is generally thought to be much more competitive than their 13+ - there are far more applicants at 11+ (most local school only go to Year 7) and only half the number of places.

I don't want to sound grabby, but it was a pretty generous fee reduction. Thoughts...?

I would have thought they have withdrawn the scholarship, it would be unusual to offer now for use for in 2 years time. They know you like the school so no longer need to offer a sweetener to guide you accept the place. You will have to ask them outright if it will apply.

For many schools, not all, the 13+ scholarship has an additional CE like exam in Year 8, perhaps this school does that as well and so the criteria for a scholarship would be different.

Is it possible that although her offer of a place is not conditional on any tests, she can still opt to take the tests to be considered for a 13+ scholarship. That would seem reasonable.

It won't transfer, she will have to compete again with other 13+ candidates.

She has not been tested against the 13 plus DC has she. She was tesgted for 11 plus entry. I would have taken it when offered.

As you say in your OP, the school has a separate scholarship process for 13+, with academic scholarships awarded on the basis of performance in CE or the school's own exam. If that's the case, I wouldn't expect the 11+ scholarship offer to be transferred automatically to 13+ entry. It isn't a case of your DD not being as strong a candidate against the 13+ applicants, it's just that no 13+ academic scholarships have been awarded yet.

You have an unconditional offer of a 13+ place at the school, but to compete for an academic scholarship your DD would have to take CE (I assume she is at a prep if she is able to stay on until Y8).

This is a common scenario for schools which pretest for 13+ entry. Places are offered on the basis of a Y6 (or sometimes Y7) pretest/interview process, but then exams for academic scholarships and auditions/tryouts for music/drama/sports scholarships don't happen until Y8.

Surely she will have to sit the appropriate scholarship exam with her cohort in two years? You can’t expect them to transfer the scholarship.

@PresentingPercy

She has not been tested against the 13 plus DC has she. She was tesgted for 11 plus entry. I would have taken it when offered.

I agree. Or at least asked before changing

Yes, ask the school how they will be assessing her for a scholarship at 13+

She'll probably need to sit either CE or the school's own exam, not for the place, as that's already in the bag, but for the scholarship. With the pressure off in terms of the place, there's every reason to think she will shine

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I was fully expecting her to have to sit another test in order to try for the 13+ scholarship - I really wasn't expecting it to be just transferred across. It's just that the 13+ offer letter was very clear that there would be no more testing/common entrance etc, just a "she's in, send us the massive deposit, see you in 2.5 years".

So, they've either got something up their sleeve for deciding 13+ scholarships later that they're not sharing yet, or they're not giving any out this year, or they have given them out on the basis of pre-tests and DD didn't get one, or they've got a round of scholarship exams coming up but have decided on the basis of her 11+ scores she's got no hope! Do you think I've been overthinking this at all...?

I'm just going to have to phone them and risk sounding grabby...

Out of interest why did you want to defer your daughter's place to 13+?

The main reason we deferred is because although we are sure it's a better school, or at least, better for her, it's quite a distance away. She will have to be on the school minibus before 7.30am, and won't get back until 6.30pm. I think she may be OK with this at 13, but at the moment she still just needs so much sleep - she'd need to be in bed by 8.30, meaning she only had two hours between getting home and going to bed. Theoretically, all prep is done at school before they get the bus home, unless they've done activities instead, and she's the sort of kid who will sign up for everything, get home knackered and then still have an hour or more of homework. I foresee pain mostly for me.

@PenceyPrep

The main reason we deferred is because although we are sure it's a better school, or at least, better for her, it's quite a distance away. She will have to be on the school minibus before 7.30am, and won't get back until 6.30pm. I think she may be OK with this at 13, but at the moment she still just needs so much sleep - she'd need to be in bed by 8.30, meaning she only had two hours between getting home and going to bed. Theoretically, all prep is done at school before they get the bus home, unless they've done activities instead, and she's the sort of kid who will sign up for everything, get home knackered and then still have an hour or more of homework. I foresee pain mostly for me.

Yes, it's a long day but I'm assuming a lot of the DC will be in the same boat. It might be easier to adjust in Y7 when, presumably, DD will have a slightly more gentle start, complete prep at school and therefore have downtime at home. I just wonder whether joining in Y9 means that others are already into the 'routine' and that additional study/homework may be ramping up in preparation for GCSEs.

What proportion of DC join at 13+? Would DD be one of a small number of newbies when friendship groups are already established?

What are your options if DD doesn't get the 13+ scholarship? Would she still go there?

It may be too late but in your shoes I would probably take the 11+ scholarship if you can do that and let DD adjust to the long days. There's no pressure then of another exam in two year's time.

'Getting into the routine' is a good point @BobbinAround. I'm not so concerned about the friendship thing - it's a much larger intake into Year 9, and the kids who come up from the school's own Year 8 are actually coming from their prep school which, albeit nearby, is very definitely a separate school, with its own buildings and teachers and culture. So, in fact, that was another factor that pushed us towards deferring - we suspect that starting in Year 9 will feel like a proper new start for everyone - more so than Year 7.

We are fortunate that the scholarship is not critical. She can go whether she gets one or not - it's just a nice-to-have. Scholars also get an enrichment programme which I think she would love (terminally curious child).