JAGS or Newsteadwood

[CoComi]

I really need help to make my decision on my DD secondary school.
My DD had passed all local grammar schools and is more likely to be offered a place at Newsteadwood in Orpington (first preference in common application form). On the other hand she was offered Scholarship (around 5% not much) and bursary (20%) at Jags, also in another independent school as well but she prefers Jags. We are not really rich but if we cut some of our expenses we will be able to pay the remaining of 75% of the fees.
My DD prefers Jags but also doesn't mind Newsteadwood; because this is a long commitment of 7 years I am not sure which school to go for? Which one is better academically, socially, diversity and mental wellbeing as well.

What is the travel time like for both? They are quite far apart
How easily can you afford the independent fees plus any extras like school trips, uniform etc
Out of school activities... Will these be affected?

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

What is the travel time like for both? They are quite far apart How easily can you afford the independent fees plus any extras like school trips, uniform etc Out of school activities... Will these be affected?

Both Schools will have easy journey since we are in the middle of the two. For the extra activities and trips; I am not sure how that is expensive compare to activities out school since she does a lot already and I was thinking that if she sticks to school activities and cancel others which are out school, that may compensate the other. But not sure if that will work or not, I will really appreciate if someone can advice on this!

Congratulations to your DD!

We are also trying to choose between JAGS and another school (not Newsteadwood)

I know JAGS has improved a huge amount in terms of pastoral care but I still worry about the academic pressure the girls are under, especially higher up the school. Someone described it as a ‘stress fest’. I can understand there will be more pressure as you get older, especially around exams, so trying to understand if this typical or is JAGS very different in this respect? I’d be really interested in hearing from anyone who has direct experience.

We are (hopefully likely) to be making the same choice.
We’re going to go for JAGS as my daughter was bowled over by them and their girls are the best advert - so confident, articulate and individual.
I am also pleased that my young in the year y6 can catch the coach from the bottom of our road rather than do a lengthy multi step journey by public transport.
Good luck with your choice.

@Helspopje

We are (hopefully likely) to be making the same choice. We’re going to go for JAGS as my daughter was bowled over by them and their girls are the best advert - so confident, articulate and individual. I am also pleased that my young in the year y6 can catch the coach from the bottom of our road rather than do a lengthy multi step journey by public transport. Good luck with your choice.

Was your choice between Newstead wood and Jags? What made you go for JAGs rather than Newstead wood? My daughter is very academic and she loves sports, which school can be better place for her in your opinion?

Mine too

We set out on this journey hoping for a grammar - NW/Towney/Dartford and applied to the indies as a ‘let’s see’, but we were really impressed with a few of the indies we looked at and mentally created a ranking with tiers (for us jags, eltham, clsg were higher but I do realise that it’s a v individual thing) and said that if she got a scholarship to any of those we’d think again.

The info nights and sample lessons at JAGS and CLSG knocked her socks off and I was v impressed with the patent info nights, particularly with the students who spoke.

We let the chips fall and she had a good few offers, but what sealed it was when the email from jags came in she bounced around the room with joy. She was sooooo pleased with herself.

We have neighbours whose older girls went to JAGS and have achieved wonderfully and I’ve been impressed with every one of their friends I’ve met socially.

I also have a slightly different view of NW - it’s an extremely high pressure environment too, certainly no less stressful than JAGS and many struggle there too.

My DD does loads of sport outside of school including one based in Dulwich and the clubs info suggests that she can migrate a lot of that to after school then catch the late bus home which will help our family life as she’s the eldest of 3 abd the dragging around SE London on a weekend is painful. She wants to stay with beacons though...

@Helspopje : That makes sense. What about the academic achievement? Quality of teaching? And the support? Are they similar or one has an advantage than other? Do you have any idea?

On raw output, both do extraordinarily well, but JAGS outperforms NW most years
It’s not really about that though, is it. If you take very bright people in, should should score very well, shouldn’t you?

I have a daughter at Newstead and it’s a really lovely, friendly, unpressurised environment. The headmaster is also Inspiring. There are plenty of sports teams too. It’s never going to be as bells and whistles as JAGs but that’s because it’s not costing £140k over 7 years. Both schools are great but only one is free so it all comes down to whether you want to invest in the prestige of private or if you’re happy with a great grammar.

DD is at NW at it isn’t pressurised and as Bickleymum says the Head is inspiring. The parents tend to be the main pressure so if you are not the pressure putting on type of parent then the school won’t be. They have electives and non-curriculum weeks, trying out all sorts of subjects and experiences.

NW isn’t glossy, some of the buildings are tired but that is because the school choose to spend on teachers and not on other things. A lot of clubs are run by passionate sixth formers or teachers and don’t cost a Penny but are great, extra curricular is superb and more varied than a friend’s DD at a local GDST school, music and drama excellent and a real Corps D’esprit that encourages each girl to be themselves. Teachers are good at responding to questions.

As I can see two Newstead mums in the thread, can I ask you a question? How is diverse Newstead? We would like a school with good mix of girls from different cultures and backgrounds.

It is so diverse that there is no minority or majority both racially and culturally. There are not swathes on FSM, but there are some but not as many as you might get in a typical comprehensive.

@PettsWoodParadise , @Bickleymumma: Thank you for the information and it is very helpful to hear from NW parents. Just another question; from your experience of NW, how is the quality of teaching? I read in another forum (I am not sure how this is true) that in NW a year group can get an amazing teacher or totally unhelpful teacher and parents find themselves in dilemma to support with private tutoring?

DD has in the majority had great teachers. There has also never been an instance where there hasn't been a teacher unlike friends who have DCs at some other schools that have supply after supply teacher for maths and sciences.

There has been the odd 'meh' teacher, but they are in the minority. DD complained once that one of her subjects was very unimaginatively taught but that was against the back drop of all the other teaching to be so superb and the particular module of that subject being rather dry anyway. We've never had to tutor DD for gaps. Some of the 'meh' teachers have left under the aegis of the new Head too as he has sought to drive up standards and not let the school rest on its laurels. The school have been very responsive when we have had questions about any teaching or achievement. Some concerns of course will be legitimate but some parents are quite intense and have an expectation that just because their DD got into NW they will be stellar, they often are, but not always and so they often seek to find fault, it could happen in any school. For those who do struggle (and by NW standards struggle is a different world!) there are lunchtime clinics from teachers and mentoring from older students, they are not left alone.

@CoComi

Ex-JAGS girl here. You might have decided already, but I thought I'd chip in.

The school seems to be improving in recent years - I left not long ago - in terms of pastoral care. I didn't really have the best experience there, but I really enjoyed the Sixth Form, and my time at the school got better as years went on.

It is academically pressured, but it also depends on your child's personality and family influences. My parents didn't put pressure on me, but I know of girls who were in revision camps at Easter and always doing extra work. My grades were 'average' for my year group 5+ A*s at GCSE, but of course, that's more than average anywhere else. I didn't feel that much academic pressure because my friend group wasn't like that, but I know that most people did, and some became very anxious to the point where they needed some help managing this. However, I know that this has calmed down a lot in the last few years.

I went to NW, some (ok many) years ago, so my knowledge is not current. Girls from JAGS did come to NW in 6th form, can’t remember any transferring the other way, though some did go private at this point.

A parent myself now, personally wouldn’t pay what JAGS charge vs what you get free at NW.

NW has everything going for it until you fall foul of them. If you do, they will destroy you or your DD. This is unlikley but it has happened. So, if your DD feels unhappy, take it seriously - please!! Other mums say it is unpressurised. However, if you do not fit, there will be no accommodation and pressure will be unbearable.

Sorry to hear about your or your DD's experience @MumoftheSpecies I don't know how long ago the experience was, maybe it has changed? I also appreciate that there can be pockets of problems in any school.

From the girls I know and the parents there is no 'fit' type, the school celebrates diversity. Many of the girls have quirks and uniqueness and they are encouraged and not quashed as long as their quirks are not ones that hurt others. They have students who identify as boys and have managed their expressions superbly! Not easy in what is an all girls' school at intake. There is no majority of one race, financial profile or similar. DD turned down an offer from a top public school that admits girls in for sixth form to stay on at Newstead.

They have non-homework weeks every third week to give the girls a break, have enrichment activities that are not academic ones, encourage them to think of alternatives to university etc. A friend with a DD at a local comprehensive says that it is more pressured there for the top stream and they seem to get twice as much homework as my DD. Pressure seems to come more from the parents than from the teachers IME.

Thank you for the sales pitch

@MumoftheSpecies

Thank you for the sales pitch

I am just a happy parent with a happy daughter and felt it appropriate to share as sharing information is what mumsnet is about. As it is a state school it isn't exactly like I can get commission!

I understahn up to a point. However, you state that there is no type. Yet, there was a suicide there, because of pressure and other parents have mentioned pressure. There was also a suicide attempt that only failed becuse of a seemingly miraculous chance, and the main progenitor of that one was the man who is now Head. Yes, he can make things happen, but was acting outside his competence and is only saved from the consequences of his Hubris by dumb chance.
Floods of happiness does not negate misery and parents can miss something vitally important if you obscure it.
I thought my post was balanced. It wasn't: avoid this place, every one who is happy there is delusional; it was: don't let your expectations blind you if there is a problem.
In that way, your post was a sales ptich and, given what we know of mental health, I argue, could be called an irresposible one.

I am not completely disagreeing with you. Sadly there is unhappiness in nearly every school. My niece experienced a suicide at Langley girls. A friend's DD was driven to drugs and bulimia at an Independent nearby. NW seems to get more press due to the nature of the school. I was giving my experience and this thread is balanced as I would like to think we are having a 'reasonable' expose of two sides of experience but I am feeling attacked when you say I am delusional and irresponsible. The suicide I know the girl had mental health issues long before they joined the school and was two years before my DD joined so must be nearly ten years ago now and yes the school could have acted much better, it is now a very different school to then. The school have clearly not been faultless, they have tried to put a long of things in place to redress past problems, but I am sure more could be done. I hope that sets the record straight. p.s. I am not delusional just a glass half full person. I will bow out and let others comment or pm me.

honestly JAGS has been crippled for many years with terrible mental health issues, anorexia and over-skinny girls, highly toxic relationships ...

I think we'd all struggle to name a senior school that doesn't pupils with severe mental illness? It's not a private/public sector thing in education.

But then I also think that our kids are mostly going to achieve similar grades wherever they go, so this forensic analysis of leavers destinations for selective schools is unnecessary.

The key is to find a culture and experience you think your dc will enjoy? There are often a number of good choices and you just have to plump for one. No school will be the better choice for all children.

To discuss suicides of children you didn't know (and to loudly proclaim why they happened) is a really unedifying spectacle.....

Listen to me pleasee, i go to this school currently choose jags please newstead isn't as good as it plays out to be, it is all planned out to make it seem that way. I am currently writing this with tears in my eyes. Newstead is the cause of my anxiety and frequent panic attacks they don't teach the students well and instead get already smart kids place them in a toxic work environment and use us for their image. Please if u care abt ur child don't do it. They will make yr7 the best yr but u will live to regret it after. The building is falling apart and the food is disgusting, they have also been many rodent infestations. I am now suicidal and on the brink of giving up because of this school, the teachers are racist as well please. For the sake of ur child don't bring her here, I went from a once happy child to one who cries themselves to sleep, don't do it. Choose Jags