DAO (Dame Alice Owens) v City boys

[Schoolflapper]

So I know this is a nice decision to have to make but I’m still tormented (to the point of going a bit mad...). DS has an academic place at DAO/Dame Alice Owens judging by his ranking. He also has an offer from City plus one other north London private. The journey is fine to all of them, there are no siblings in the mix, the money is saved but really is an issue in that it really should go to a million other things including pension. My question is: if I send him to DAO am I compromising on the academic side at all? Are the children in the selective intake challenged? When it comes to the university and A level results (impressive) are the people who went right the way through the school well represented in those top results? I’d always just assumed DAO was brilliant academically but now it comes to having a choice (which we hadn’t expected at the start of all this) I’m second guessing and wondering if there could be some flaw in the ‘dream ticket’ I so much want to grab. Any thoughts especially from people who’ve children have got to the exam stage at DAO?

You may do better posting on the Herefordshire/ North London thread on elevenplusexams.co.U.K. Forum where there is a DAO expert.

Hello, thanks so much for replying. I don’t think daogroupie is that impartial as name suggests - though maybe no one is. I guess I was hoping someone with an older child who wasn’t quite so invested might reply?

Firstly congratulations to your DS. It's a great set of options to have - though I can see your dilemma. No direct experience but have relatively good knowledge of both; I strongly suspect the excitement of going to school in the City, looking out to the Thames / Tate Modern / St Paul's is hard to match in Potters Bar. Academically both are strong schools and a hard working, able kid should do great in either school. It's more about the environment that your DS is likely to enjoy best for 7 years. If urban / exciting / international is your vibe then CLS. If calmer / more suburban / spacious (including more playing fields etc) appeals more then DAO. You (and him) may also have a clear preference between single sex and co-ed which could help with decision making. Is the other private offer a contender at all?

@Panserbjorn thanks so much for replying. Oddly, maybe, ds loves the potters bar vibe and the green space. He wants to go there. I’m the one agonising. I think he could be happy at any of the schools, so it’s more what the outcome would be. The other private would be a contender against city, yes, but really the choice is about money and academics. If I save the money will he do just as well academically? We both have a bit of a preference for co-ed but could be happy with all boys.

You’re crazy (sorry, in the the nicest possible way). DAO was just chosen as the best school of the decade. It’s the holy grail for most North London kids. It’s a brilliant school from what I hear (lots of my daughter’s friends have siblings there). Don’t be silly, save your money and choose DAO!!!!

And although DAO is non-selective for siblings, actually most really smart kids (which you definitely have to be to pass the academic exam given the insane competition) also have smart siblings. My daughter has just been through the 11+ in North London and absolutely everyone wanted to get into DAO (we’re out of catchment ourselves). My daughter’s friends who will be starting in Year 7 in 2021 are all super-high achievers and my daughter is at a very academic prep

We are in a similar dilemma - would anyone has advice on QE Boys Vs City?

DAO is a great school. My daughter and son, plus their cousin all went there. They get outstanding grades and I would certainly save my money over private.

However, all schools have their issues so don't expect any school to be perfect.

Your son also has a say!

@New21 QE boys! Again, no contest.

You are talking about the best boys grammar school in London (UK?). Why would you choose yo pay hundreds of thousands for a similar experience? Getting into QE boys is more difficult than into City, so those boys are extremely(!) bright. Only the two brightest boys in my daughter’s prep got into QE boys and they are really, really, really bright all-round great boys.

Well done to your son!

@xelam thank you! everything you say is what I’d always assumed - I kind of thought any one not really wealthy grabbed the selective states as first preference (if not going local). But then I found friends saying ‘but are you sure? The privates make things easier/look after you/small class sizes etc he’ll be more accelerated’ and it made me start second guessing myself. I went to an ordinary comp far from London, didn’t enjoy it particularly but got good grades. None of these schools are anything like my own experiences. Like most people I’m also going slightly insane during the lockdown... DS knows what he wants though!

@StrikeWhileTheCoffeeIsHot I appreciate the insight from someone who knows people there. And it’s true, nowhere can be ‘perfect’.

@Schoolflapper DAO (or QE boys for that matter) are not schools for parents who can’t afford to go private. From personal experience, parents choose those schools over the top independents even when they could easily afford the fees. Just because you can afford the fees, why would you pay if the grammars are free (and more difficult to get into, so cream off the very best students)?

I have never heard anyone complain about DAO ever and like I say, I know many parents with kids there.

Use the money for a house deposit for your son.

@xelam you’ve just completely restored my sanity! The more friends I’ve spoken to the foggier things have got but you’ve brought back the common sense clarity I had before I fell down a rabbit hole of over thinking. And yes, this way there’s at least the chance of helping him out later.

Thank you @XelaM for your advice! And thank you OP, both my DS and I are finding it hard to choose so hearing your experience is very helpful.

I think the private do much better at A levels. If you look at the league tables the top schools are all private
www.locrating.com/league_tables.aspx
City is at rank 20 whilst dao is 91
QE is in top 20 but there is a debate about how they kick out half the kids for A levels

Also private schools do have undeniably better facilities and the contacts made during school feed the 'old school boy' network which is alive and kicking.

However it is about 200k Vs free.

City boys don't have better facilities than QE boys I don't think? And yes, they kick out less achieving students after GCSEs, but they are quite open about it. And so do private schools. The neighbouring schools are quite happy to take on and benefit from the "less achieving" QE-boys from what I hear. I don't have a boy, so know less about QE boys, but from what I hear sports is incredibly important to the school. It's an amazing school and one of the most selective in the country, so it's much more prestigious to have got into QE boys than City or any other London independent schools. I'm putting a daughter through private education in North London and if I had the choice I would bite the hand off any of those grammar schools.

It's pretty obvious why DAO's results are slightly lower than QE boys or Westminster etc given that only part of their intake is selective.

@Schoolflapper Glad to help, but honestly in my experience, parents who advise you to reject schools like DAO are those whose kids never got in

Also on the subject of the London grammars and whether they are for those who can't afford to pay private school fees...

Parents pay A LOT of money to put their kids through private prep schools and years of tutoring to try to get into those "holy grail" North London grammars. It's quite rare to come across a little 'genius' who gets into those schools with no tutoring or parental money.

@Schoolflapper a parent at our prep school had an older son at DAO, but accepted a place at City for her DD. However a friend rejected Habs for DAO, partly because of the sibling place, money and location.

I think a lot of people choose the school best suited for their DC. The pupils at QE differ vastly from city; the travel time required; money. Many threads here and in Facebook cover this. One debate was Qe Vs. Westminster. The overriding opinion from tutors and others was Westminster if money was not an issue. But there are other debates where people prefer grammar.

I decided grammar is best suited for my dc but do know others who privates. At work, people with old money would not dream of sending their kids to a prestigious private and majority of colleagues are private school educated.

work, people with old money would not dream of NOT sending their kids to a prestigious private and majority of colleagues are private school educated.

www.tatler.com/school/city-of-london-tatler-school-guide

City boys is a 100% selective school versus a semi selective.
The progress 8 score for boys are quite a bit lower than girls at DAO.
P8 score
P8 Girls 0.75
P8 Boys 0.52
Some of the boys feel that the girls at DAO are more academic and are praised more at prize giving events. This could in turn lead to loss of confidence in the boys.
Teachers at City know how to get the best out of their boys.

I agree with orange blossom about the level of analysis required not just headlines. However I'm also not a fan of all these half baked measures the government introduce to assess progress.

I would also say apart from academics it's how you child will fit in. I think city has a wider ethnic mix than QE, not sure about DAO.