London independent secondary vs grammar

[SecondaryWorld]

Good afternoon! my child was offered a place in a private secondary school with excellent exam results, and will most likely be offered a place in a state grammar school with very similar academic results.

In order to go to the grammar school we will need to move because the commute will be too long, and I'm finding it difficult to decide what's the best thing to do. The house prices near the grammar school are much higher that where we live at the moment.

On the one hand there is the issue of the fees of the independent school, which means that our quality of life will be affected, but we should be able to afford it. Presumably the majority of the children that go to the independent school will come from rich families (except the ones in bursaries which are probably a small minority), which we are not. My husband thinks that our child may be bullied for not fitting in with the fancy holidays, big houses and fancy lifestyle of the other children. I tend to think that as with any school, the kids will make friends with kids from similar backgrounds but I recognize that if the majority live very different lives to us, that may be a source of unhappiness given how important it is for teenagers to feel part of the group.

On the other hand, our child is bright and I am confident that will be able to take advantage of all the resources available in terms of sports, arts and music. The grammar school will be equally academic, I think, but definitely has much less resources and presumably, also less pastoral care and individual attention.

I guess my question is to parents that are not wealthy and send their kids to very selective independent schools, if their children have fitted in, are happy or if you have regretted your choice.

Also, to parents that send their kids to London grammar schools and can afford independent schools, whether you have regretted your choice or you're happy with your decision?

Thank you for any comments, tips and advice.

We had the same scenario and went for the independent school. Our son is very happy.

Thank you @yey22. I'm also inclined for the independent, so that's useful to know. In what year is your child, if you don't mind saying?

Year 8, please feel free to PM me if you have any questions

We have the same issue (we think!) of a lovely Indy vs state grammar. I am waiting for offers day to decide but erring towards the independent

A similar discussion, KCS v Wilson's is going on elevenplusexams.co.U.K.
You can also google Tiffin v Hampton and you will get an old Mumsnet thread. Overall most families decide in the end due to finance and then journey / cost of house move etc.

My impression is independent schools especially in London these days is that there are children from different backgrounds and not all will be exceptionally rich.

Years ago I was one of the poorer children at a very wealthy school, and while I was aware of it, I was never bullied for it. I knew I had smaller allowances than my friends and didn't ski or ride or have a big house, but it didn't affect my friendships.

@corblimbea Thank you for your message. We are also waiting for offers day to decide, the problem is that we will have only until March the 5th to accept the independent offer, so not much time. We think it's very likely that we will be offered the grammar place, but it is not 100% certain.

Thank you @cloudymornings96, I will look up those discussions you mentioned.

@stokey thanks for sharing your experience, that sounds very reassuring and what I hope would be the case for our child if we end up choosing the independent. I thought that the decision would be easier, given the significant cost, but now that in reality there is an option of a really good private school close by, we are not so sure. Many thanks for sharing your thoughts!

We’ve got a similar dilemma- outstanding state school (though not a grammar) 20 minutes’ walk from us, or a very selective independent slightly further away. I honestly don’t know what to do- one thing this past year has shown us is how much we all value travel, and although we can afford the indy, we’ll have to rein in holidays and eating out quite a bit. DS wants to go to the state school as a lot of his friends will be going there. That’s not decisive, but it’s not trivial , especially since years 5 and 6 have been so messed up.

I also wonder whether the extra sport, drama and music at the selective option actually amount to anything if Covid restrictions are going to be with us for years. I don’t believe DS will ever have the chance to sing treble in a choir again.

Is it Wilson’s, OP? I wouldn't want to answer generically grammar vs independent, as it depends on the schools. But I do know a lot about Wilson's - from more than one perspective - and would be happy to answer any questions.

@TadlowDogIncident Hi Tad, thanks for sharing. We are similar to you, we value travelling, specially to visit family abroad, and if we were to decide for the independent school, the travel budget will be severely affected.

I had not thought about Covid restrictions lasting years, but in any case, I suppose that independent schools will have more resources to overcome the restrictions through more IT and teachers available? or maybe not, I'm not sure....

We are the opposite in the sense that to choose the grammar school we will need to move, uproot the family, find another house during an unstable housing market. Which is not impossible, and perhaps it would be worth it to save the fees, but then I worry that's a mistake in the long run. As you can see, I'm going round in circles : )

Thank you @blowonitthen No, it's not Wilson's. I think that's a boys school? I have a daughter : )

Hi @SecondaryWorld We were in a similar dilemma last year and chose the grammar. Couldn't be happier. The reasons were many - despite us having the money set aside already we felt that DC would be the poor cousin compared to most, the independent school is not as ethnically diverse, the independent wouldn't give anything extra academically and most of all, DC preferred the grammar to the independent.

Tactically, we also thought that if we say no to the grammar now there's no going back if we change our minds. The independent has available spaces coming up every year (due to people moving etc) and as long as we would pay, I think it would be possible to get a place. In other words, I think it's easier to go from grammar to independent than the other way around in this particular case.

But it all comes down to the different schools in question and what your DC wants.

@SecondaryWorld there was an informative thread on here a few weeks ago about whether or not someone could afford private. It's well worth a read to get a realistic idea of the costs involved thread. Maybe you can weigh this information against the cost of moving.

@conundrum2020 many thanks for your comment. It sounds that it went very well for your DC, that's great! My DC prefers the independent school but only because a friend is probably going there too, and we would not have to move. I'm not sure whether it would be feasible to move her there later on from the grammar, as I believe that they have a waiting list. The school is James Allen's Girls' School.

@stokey many thanks, I will take a look at that. Have a good day!

@SecondaryWorld If your DD prefers the independent school, it's different (we never had a discussion about where friends would go).

The point I tried to make is that state schools have waiting lists with a clear ranking. Independent schools take in students based on their own criteria, ie more flexibility.

In any case, I don't think you can go wrong. Good luck with your decision!

Thank you very much for all the comments!

We are able to travel to the grammar, but we have the choice of some independents (some with good scholarship which would lower fees).

However the more we think about it the more we think we will take the Grammar sport. So hard though. Also the Grammar journey will be a better journey than the Independent (s).

I think it's important to try to get an understanding of the additional costs at the specific school you're interested in, as they vary hugely. I read lots of warnings about extra costs when we were making the same decision, but our experience has been the opposite of what I read. Pretty much everything is included in the fees at our school - the only significant extras you pay for are private music lessons and foreign trips, and that would have been the same at the grammar (the range of trips at the grammar is similarly broad, with a range of prices, but by no means everyone goes on lots of trips at either school). Lunch costs are probably similar but for us they're nicely predictable - they're included in the fees, so are an entirely known cost. And in other ways we've made savings - we got almost all the uniform second hand because the shop is so good (and well used), and we've saved hundreds on a bus pass because we drop/collect ourselves (school is close to work). DS has access to every sport/club/activity we could think of for free, so we don't pay for anything outside of school (and he's at school on Saturdays so we spend less on entertainment at the weekend). There are a few random extras on the bill (like stationery from the discounted school shop, or the odd day trip or social event), but it's no more than maybe 100 quid a year.

In terms of relative wealth, yes, some of the kids are seriously wealthy, but the fact that he isn't has never been an issue. He's one of the ones who spends his holiday in a cottage in Wales rather than yachting round the Med - but he doesn't care, and nobody else seems to either. There seems to be very little snobbery over brands etc (or maybe he's just oblivious to it!)

I think it partly depends on your alternative school. Grammars tend to have a disproportionately high number of wealthy families and prep school kids, hence the viability of ski trips and Caribbean cricket tours etc. Of course the overall profile at an independent school is likely to be even wealthier - but you might find that the difference is less than you think. Certainly around here, a lot of the wealthier families I know (the City worker million pound house types) put their money into prep schools and tutors in order to secure grammar places.

My one piece of actual advice is that, once you've made your decision, you need to embrace it and not look back (unless circumstances force you to). Of course, think about it as much as you possibly can now - but once you've committed, just try to forget the other option (whichever that was), and move on.

@notcricket excellent advice, many thanks for that!

@SecondaryWorld what did u decide eventually- how did it work out for you? Plz share

IMO, depends on the school, your child and how far you can stretch financially. Bear in mind school fees have broadly been rising a couple of percent per year and Labour putting VAT on fees following the next election will be a serious hit.

I think the best London independents won’t have a landscape where all families are Uber wealthy - there is always a mix.

Bear in mind also that the majority of grammars simply won’t have the same resources/facilities/levels of expert teaching that independents do - and also if you are looking at academics if you have a partially selective intake, the teaching and results will reflect that. You can’t compare, say, Dame Alice Owen to schools like Highgate or City because DAO is mixed ability - and a very academic child would probably enjoy (and do better) in the private schools in that case.

However, ‘true’ grammars like Latymer or QE boys will arguably be even more academically pushy’ than the privates. It’s really about what you think is best for your child, and how far you can stretch financially.