School refusing to give GCSE predictions

[BirthdayBadger]

DS is in year 11 (in an independent school). No mocks have been done at all and the school is saying that they are not going to give us any predictions and that there's no point in even asking. We know that predictions exist because DS applied to go to a different sixth form and his school needed to supply them for the new school to consider him.

Is this normal? I feel that we actually have no idea how he is really doing. We had a very inconclusive parents evening recently where some teachers gave test results which helped a bit but not all subjects had had any recent tests, or the teachers wouldn't comment. So, we are concerned that we don't actually know how well he is doing at all.

Is this what other schools are doing? Surely it's usual to provide some kind of prediction so that a clear idea of where the pupils are at is given and steps for extra support can be given if needed?

@BirthdayBadger taken from google 'An embargo period covers the defined period of time where early access to embargoed examination results is given. This allows universities and colleges to prepare and make decisions by the official publication dates of exam results.'
It also allows exam boards to carry out some checks of results etc.
So yes we do have the results before they are released to students however they are not shared with everybody in the school just those who need to know

@BirthdayBadger What your school is doing/refusing to do seems both unreasonable and unnecessary!

@queenofthelamas in my experience schools are given the results the day/night before they are released to students.

How on earth can the students be expected to know their areas of weakness of they are not given feedback on exams?
You don't need a grade for this. In fact a grade detracts from the process.

Most schools are refusing to give any sort of grade related information out. We've stopped reporting on year 11 attainment and only giving ATL. This is to stop any possible parental legal action afterwards if the gcse grades awarded are below a students mock grade.

They won’t tell you as you’ll complain if they don’t achieve their ‘predicted grade’ which is a highly educated guess (but still a guess) at the best of times. Last year we got a few pretty horrible complaints. This year will be a nightmare as parents are wise so schools won’t share anything that puts their neck on the line.

[quote BirthdayBadger]@noblegiraffe - this is probably me being thick, but surely if school mark their own mock exams, or even without mock they can make predictions then they must know something of what the assessment criteria is?[/quote]
Not for Y11. Last year centre assessed grades were what we thought a pupil would get had they continued with education as normal and sat their exams in June as expected.

This year it is proposed that we assess the grade that they are currently working at. This is an entirely different assessment and no standards exist to measure this against. We await further information.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation sorry what does ATL stand for? Above the line?

[quote Sleepthief]**@BirthdayBadger* I'm not sure what @queenofthelamas* means by results embargo either, as I know from experience (teacher/daughter of teachers) that schools only get the results the night before and very few are privy to those...[/quote]
We get them about 24 hrs before. And often, if there are obvious anomalies, we ask for them to be remarked, which happens so quickly the students are none the wiser when they get their marks the next day.

We also aren't giving 'predicted grades'. They know their targets, they've known them since year 9. Given how little work we've been able to properly assess so far, and the fact that we have no idea what the criteria will be, it would be vastly unprofessional to 'predict' a grade right now.

birthdaybadger I am a state school but we usually perform well.

We gave students the 2018 paper start of year 11 as they missed the Year 10 exams. So they have had results from those papers. They also had data point reports with Estimated Final Grades. My students haven't asked about the mocks as I think they know the predicament. As it happens they did worse in the mocks.

I think if parents get mock results they will expect this to be the final grade. There are other deciding factors. It just gives parents something to use against schools if they're not happy.

This is where there will be a worrying divide between disadvantaged and other students.

We have some A level students appealing for about the 4th time - they should have just done the retake in November 🤷🏻‍♀️

One other issue is that there is no 2020 paper to use to work out grades.

For my subject we only have GCSE papers from 2018 & 2019 as new spec started 2016. It's really hard to make important judgments.

@noblegiraffe then if they are working from what they are currently working at then the whole Value Added thing now means nothing?

ATL is attitude to learning.

Agree with a PP that this year is v different. Last year it was grade what you think they would have got. This year its grade them where they actually are.

How on earth can the students be expected to know their areas of weakness of they are not given feedback on exams?

Well they're not going to sit the exams so not sure it would make much difference? They just need to focus on working hard consistently over the next few months.

@HelloDulling So an entire paper gets queried, remarked, verified and regraded in just 24 hours? If so that's impressive.

How can schools demonstrate Value Added when pupils aren't being assessed in a standardised way?

My school has also just decided not to issue Y11 with updated predicted grades until we have some idea of what assessment will look like for this cohort.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

How on earth can the students be expected to know their areas of weakness of they are not given feedback on exams? You don't need a grade for this. In fact a grade detracts from the process.

Most schools are refusing to give any sort of grade related information out. We've stopped reporting on year 11 attainment and only giving ATL. This is to stop any possible parental legal action afterwards if the gcse grades awarded are below a students mock grade.

You don't need grades but you need feedback. OP's child hasn't even done a mock exam.

Good feedback will tell you how many marks you got for each question so it doesn't take a genius to work out what grade you are working at.

ATL = attitude to learning! OK I get it. I work in advertising so it means something else to me entirely. Thank you.

[quote BirthdayBadger]@HelloDulling So an entire paper gets queried, remarked, verified and regraded in just 24 hours? If so that's impressive.[/quote]
Yes. I think it’s amazing. We have at least a couple every year.

OP what do you mean by value added? It's not really a measure applied to an individual.

You don't think exam boards genuinely re-mark do you? [hollow laugh]

In the past, yes, but now a 'review' of marks is essentially the lead marker saying "oh yes, I have confidence my markers marked correctly"

[quote BirthdayBadger]@HelloDulling So an entire paper gets queried, remarked, verified and regraded in just 24 hours? If so that's impressive.[/quote]
Sometimes it’s not back until maybe the lunchtime of the results day, but at least we are able to tell the student that it’s already in hand.

I can't see what use "predicted grades" are at the moment as no school has a clue what criteria will be used to grade students in the summer but DS1 has just done his mocks online. He's got his results and been told what likely grades the marks relate to. He has also been consantly assessed all through Years 10 and 11 and knows what grade level he is working at.

Good feedback will tell you how many marks you got for each question so it doesn't take a genius to work out what grade you are working at.

Good feedback tells you exactly what you did well, and exactly how to get better. None of this requires you to be given a number of marks for a question.

Not every school sits standardised mocks, therefore it would take quite some working out to take a random exam and extrapolate a grade. It's nigh on impossible, hence the difficulties with assessing students this year.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

OP what do you mean by value added? It's not really a measure applied to an individual.

The school bangs on and on about value added. I've never quite worked it out. Basically if a child is working at a grade 6 in year 9 because the school is so fab then they will get a grade 7 or even a grade 8 in year 11. Private schools love it. I think it's very .

@TwigTheWonderKid

I can't see what use "predicted grades" are at the moment as no school has a clue what criteria will be used to grade students in the summer but DS1 has just done his mocks online. He's got his results and been told what likely grades the marks relate to. He has also been consantly assessed all through Years 10 and 11 and knows what grade level he is working at.

We don't even have that here. So we are firing arrows into the dark, because we have no mocks and no formal assessments of any kind. Your son should have quite a clear idea of his progress.