Independent schools in SE London - not for the likes of us?

[TeaAndBiscuitsAndWine]

I have been looking into secondary school provision in the local area in SE London (Peckham etc.), and while there are some good state schools apparently there is huge pressure on places and lots of children don’t get in. I’m pretty sure we’ll be on the edge of the catchment zone, and get stuck with the really not as good schools. A friend suggested going private, but I’m really unsure. I think I could afford it, but it would be really tough, and I worry that DD would get bullied for not having expensive holidays, not living in a lovely big house etc. I went to a state school in a wealthy part of West London, despite living in a Council flat, and was bullied mercilessly throughout my time there. I’m worried that a private school will be even worse, and don’t want to put DD through what I went though. Does anyone have any experience of the private schools in this area? Am I being paranoid or are girls still as bitchy as I remember about the ‘poor kids’? We’re comfortable and so have spare cash for extras for me and DD now, but school fees would really wipe that out, so it would be a big commitment and I’d want to be sure I was making the right decision. DD is bright but doesn’t excel in any areas (ie a scholarship is unlikely).

While I don't have experience of private schools in your specific area, between me and my husband 's four kids I do have experience of five private schools in sw London and South of London. I think you'll find quite a broad population - certainly some wealthy families, some on bursaries, but the majority will be families that have to make sacrifices to pay for their kids education, and while relatively well off, may not have a big house or take foreign holidays. One of our kids went to Charterhouse, and we definitely felt like we were on the poor end of the wealth factor there, but the child actually going to the school did not feel particularly different from all but a few very privileged kids.
One thing is good private schools are very competitive too.

I had similar reservations before dd started secondary private as she had gone to state prior to that. Her secondary school is in an expensive area (not South london) and nearly all the kids there are prep kids however she loves it (y13) and is gutted that these are her final months there. Not all the kids there are from wealthy family's and not all the kids there are flashy (vile..). There are plenty of trips to far away places however from her experience most tend not to go as they are not compulsory or discuss the size of their family home/car etc which is pretty vulgar (not within her friendship group anyway). Best of luck. Best thing we ever spent money on was to send her to that school 😊

Thank you so much Pipandmum and beethecrackon24995, this is extremely reassuring! I don’t want my own fears and experiences to hold DD back, but don’t know any families locally in secondary school or private education to ask. I really appreciate you taking the time to detail your experiences.

In London day schools there will be a wide variety of children and families - obviously skewed relatively wealthy and white but not what you would see in a school that also offers boarding - it is only then you start hitting a lot of 4x4 Porsches and snobbery tbh.

I would say it will be the opposite, based on my experience (SE London independent) - no real talk of anyone's background, a lot of parents who make sacrifices to send DC private, a lot of kids on bursary. I don't know any school in SE London where this is not the case. They will certainly not be bullied.

My two DCs are at different private schools in Dulwich.

Perception of wealth is relative so I apologise if I am way of the mark.
Obviously the majority of parents are not struggling if they can afford to send one or more children to private school.
However, there is little ostentatious wealth - no or very occasional designer handbags, some may drive a Range Rover, others drive small cars, lots ride bikes.
Houses ranges from rentals to double fronted Victorian beauties.

About 50% have two working parents - bankers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, business owners. No helicopters, chauffers, oligarchs. I don’t know anyone that has a second home abroad, although there are bound to be the odd few.
Some go on annual ski trips, or long haul, others mainly holiday in Europe.
Children often have their own device - mine don’t, as I don’t think they are old enough yet.

I haven’t come across bullying re: wealth.

I don’t think it’s a big issue either. BUT, I have had a couple of friends who have either had bursaries or been on the lower end of the income spectrum and pushed themselves to afford it, and they have found it very hard. To be honest, I think it’s mostly in their minds and they have an issue with not being as well off as some people and are constantly comparing themselves and their kids have picked up on it and seem to know about and always comment on things like the size of other people’s houses and things they don’t have. So I think if you have a mindset that ‘it’s not for you’ or ‘we won’t fit in’ it can be a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in terms of the way you feel about it, rather than the actions of other IYSWIM.

If your child gets a place, they have earned it and deserve to be there. That’s all there is to it. If you know, you and your family have a lot to offer and you don’t get your sense of self worth from material stuff, then it can be a great experience and opportunity all round.

Generally speaking, most kids take other kids as they find them...they like the ones who are funny or have the same interest in sport, or who they can mess around with in the playground or whatever. There might be hugely expensive trips etc that your DC won’t go on...but all those trips have limited spaces and many many dont go on them. Not everyone is skiing at Whistler in the winter and there are always families who make big sacrifices for the fees. There might be the odd snobby arse or two amongst the parents, but they exist at every state school too and unless you want to really think about them a lot, they wouldn’t have any impact on you at all.

I know the area very well but not the private schools other than by local reputation and the odd person I've known that sent their kids there. It's worth thinking about which ones don't demand total academic excellence and therefore your daughter would stand a chance.

I do know the worry about school places but in your position I would (and in fact did) look at schools within reach that you may get into. Deptford Green's catchment includes Peckham. It's Ofsted has been Requires Improvement for some time but its last inspection was really promising - it's frustrating that it's not been possible to reinspect since 2019. Parents whose kids go there have always told me how lovely it is, and they have much less of a behaviour problem than some other local poor performing schools. We were all set for it but DC wanted Kingsdale and was successful in the ballot.

And there is Kingsdale of course - always worth a punt in the lottery as distance isn't an issue.

Not knowing the furthest distance for Southwark schools makes it so difficult to guess at how successful you might be I know, but if you don't already know what sort of birth year you're in it's worth finding out, as it can mean big changes to catchments sometimes. I know for example that my youngest is in a low birth year which meant at primary level all sorts of weird and wonderful school admissions that would have been unthinkable for their siblings' years. Also consider that quite a lot of families have taken the opportunity of more remote working to leave London over the last year, so we may seem some growth in furthest admitted distances.

I think quite a few kids from that area also commute to Kent for the grammars. If DD is bright she could try the 11+, I think you'd want to look at Bexley and Bromley as the closest to you.

One thing I would add is that there is a lot of charity events with children asked to bring in a £1 or two to wear non-uniform etc.

Probably amounts to £15/term, random changes to inform policy (although excellent second hand uniform shop with absolutely no shame in buying second-hand, we all do).

Pre covid: termly class socials for parents, Christmas drinks (need to buy tickets), voluntary donation for teachers xmas and end of year gifts

Urgh, pressed too soon.
I suspect most private schools around south London would understand if parents could not regularly contribute to these and would ensure the children can participate regardless.
I don’t have experience of schools in this particular area but this is the experience at our school and of a friends in a nearby south London borough. North London independent schools seem to have a lot more wealth knocking about.

Not sure if our experiences might help....

We live in SE London.
Both Daughter attend schools in central London.
So eldest has been communting for school for almost ten years.

Eldest attends a Girls faith school in the middle of london-
Highly sort after outstanding school.
We decided to try for it as a faith option was important to us.
Daughter has wanted to so there since she heard about the school when she was 8.
She is doing OK there, but has additional needs which are just being addressed.
Downside is not having school friends locally. Upside she is very street smart and confident moving around london. She goes in to london on her own at weekends to see her friends - a few live near the school other travel a similar time from other areas of london.

DD2 is in Yr 7 at an independant secondary in London - she has been communting for 8 years.So similarly Street Smart.
She is gifted and was willing to do the work to apply to indy schools. [ we only liked one in the end so that's what we applied to] she also sat the entrance exam for the same school as her sister.
With the understanding that she would join her sister if the Indy didn't work out.
She qualified for a spot at her sisters school without needing the sibling space but also got an offer for the indy school which we felt would be a good fit for her.
We wanted them to both go to a school that suited them as individuals. I spent many of my school years constantly being compared to my brother. it was amazing how much better I suddenly became at school work when I just went to a different school???

The indy school does make sure that none of the teachers or pupils know which pupils are on bursaries or if on a scholarship - how much they get discounted. Part of the bursary process tells you that it can not be disclosed or you could loose it.
DD2 has a good group of friends - she doesn't really seem to care if they have more money than us. And none of them seem to faunt it.
It can be a bit expensive for after school activities with her friends but that it more down to the location of where the school is.
The school certainly seem to be doing a lot to support another local school and other charities as well as practical skills for life.
She is happy and loving school.

• Sometimes we get more issues due to the fact that her parents are married and still together after 30+ years! oh and that I have a name that is both female & male so some have assumed we are a same sex couple!

We took the decision to take our kids into london for primary because of faith and logistics - the local CofE school declared us too far away - by one road - ours is the last road on the estate before the park/railway forms a natural break.
Husband was on contract work when kids were small so away Sunday afternoon/evening then not home until Friday evening.
So I need to be able to pick eldest up & drop her at school and her sister at nursery without dropping my hours, if I did we couldn't pay our mortage.
Managed to do it so dropped one with grandparents they then walked her to nursery and me and the other caught the train.
Breakfast in London and then drop off [No breakfast club for first 2 years] I could then Boris bike to work in 10 minutes.
Finish work, bike back, collect child, jump on a train, walk to grandparents, collect car, go to nursery for other child, then drive home.
I could get to school if problem and grandparents covered the younger one if ill at nursery.

Good luck with all your choices.

We're at a SE London private school. There's definitely some money about, a couple of famous people's kids etc. From what I can tell it doesn't seem to be a big deal amongst the kids or the parents and there are loads of kids on bursaries or scholarships but no idea who is on what - it's not discussed.

I had never set foot in a private school before looking around for DC1 and I think I found it more daunting than my kid but we settled in brilliantly and it's been a good experience. Be prepared for everything to be more expensive (uniform etc) and we have certainly found the expectations and workload to be full on compared to our friends in state.

Private schools can be very varied so look carefully for what will suit your DD

In relation to noworklifebalance’s comments about charity events/gifts etc...I’d just say, don’t be out off by those things...they can be just as bad at state schools too and with things that are dictations, they really are dontations and optional.

Noworklifebalance, to be honest, I think it’s people saying things like that, that make people if Op’s position with bright children think twice about going for independent schools or selective state schools and make them think the school isn’t for the ‘likes of them’. Whilst it’s true that schools hold charity events and parents buy teacher presents etc, it really is the case that it’s all optional and only an arse would be paying attention to who hasn’t donated. The idea that these things really matter and are worth factoring into the decision making, is so unhelpful to people who already face barriers to the idea of considering such schools. If you’re already a little bit anxious about if you will fit in and be accepted, pointing out things which actually aren’t an issue anyway, are exactly what sticks in that persons mind, rather than all the really good reasons to give it a go.

@WombatChocolate

That was not how it was meant at all.

I was advising of the hidden costs, which can be a real concern. £1 here and there, teachers gifts etc may be nothing to some and can be a lot of money to others.
A lot of the concerns come from within and feeling like your child maybe missing out when others actually don’t know or don’t care one way or another and schools are supportive as far as I know.
If no-one tells you this then you it eats away at you.

No point ignoring that uniform is expensive but I was at pains to say that there are well stocked second hand uniform sales, which are very popular so there is no shame in kitting out your child in second hand clothes, as nearly all parents contribute to the stock and buy from it.

There’s no point playing it down - it most definitely is an issue when you are counting your pennies to put your kids through these schools. So, these things absolutely do put people off and even if they chose to go down the private route, it can be a cause of strain.
Not talking about or dismissing it as unimportant makes it even less accessible.

So yes, there are hidden costs - why would you enter anything without knowing about these additional costs?! However, if they go into it well informed and how to manage these, ask for help etc then it can make the whole process more accessible and reduce the stress once at the schools.

Noworklifebalance, I guess that I would emphasise more the optional nature of many of those things.

You’re right, people need to know the essential costs that cannot be avoided like uniform.

However, things like donating to charity are always optional. It is usually the Parents who organise gifts for teachers, and again it’s optional or the amount given is optional. The expensive trips abroad are optional and not attended by everyone by any means.

I suppose it’s a question of emphasis. There is the possibility to spend vast amounts more than the standard fees and uniform costs in independent schools...but almost all of it is optional or cheaper possibilities available....and you can go for those without other people really knowing or caring. Given the title of the OP’s thread and the nature of her concerns, I guess I just felt that it was really important that she realises there are people there of a range of types and not all spending big time on extras.

I’ve seen similar threads to this before. Someone always pops up to mention the £3k trip, or the expensive parties and presents, or that uniform costs over a grand. They seem to want to push people who don’t/can’t find those things away from the school and keep it as an enclave for the very rich and put people off applying for bursary places who might be really clever but not from hugely affluent backgrounds. And it gives the impression that most parents feel like that or behave like it...but fortunately that’s not the case.

If we’re interested in widening access to great education at school level or uni level, we have to work at bringing down the barriers to application and removing some of the myths. I just think it’s easy when talking about experiences to build barriers, even when people do t realise they are doing it.

I live in SE London and my son goes to an indie school close by. We:

are professionals in finance and publishing
Husband came up from absolutely dire poverty and a working class immigrant background
live in a very tiny rental flat
He does not have an Xbox or any kind of gaming equipment
None of us have iphones. In fact his phone is the cheapest Samsung because he keeps dropping it
I wear Uniqlo or Gap mostly, and have no designer handbags
He wears M and S suits, basic Adidas trainers on discount,
Holidays will be to see our family in another country or in v cheap hotels

None of this seems to make any difference. At least in his school, it is extremely uncool to show off your wealth. There are v wealthy boys in his school, and they have still said nice things about our tiny London rental flat. His football skills appear to be more important than anything else!:)

Generally my response to both my kids is what my parents used to say to me when I said that X or Y had better, posher things than me " Sorry, we can't afford it. When you grow up and make your own money, then you can buy it". It was the making of me.

This is all so reassuring, thank you so much everyone for replying! I’m going to have to do more research to figure out whether it’s going to be better to move house into catchment for one of the state schools we like, or to pay for independent schooling, but at least now it seems like it is a choice, which it didn’t really before. I know it’s my own fears, but hearing other people’s experiences is really helpful.

I can’t vouch for whether it’s true or not but having just completed the 11+ process (phew!) The Dulwich schools were far more vocal about their extensive bursaries and means blind processes than some other schools we looked at. I got the sense they were very genuine about extending their educational reach and wanting to be inclusive. However, I caveat this as someone who has not gone through the bursary process and can’t judge how hard it is.

I’d like to think we are comfortable but I’ve never owned a designer anything!