Exams cancelled 2

[Orangeblossom1977]

Started a new thread as last one is full.

What a fucking mess.
Yes. I'd like to hope there's something more nuanced to be said... but I'm not holding my breath

MrsHamlet wheres that info on the dates please! Is that definite?

I would hope that there will be some checks and balances based on. Next year’s exam cohort. Because the data is tracked from year to year it is going to look sketchy as hell if this year’s results have a positive value added and next year is a minus 0.8.

I would hope that would restrain school leaders from going wild with results. Any SLT not making rigorous checks on teacher grades is foolish.

I would also be very careful about the appeals system Gav mentioned. I suspect they will be looking for evidence to be provided for the grade given. The appeals will be where any school without a rigorous process for grades are really going to get shown up.

I hope it works out well for the students. But there are ways in which the DfE can spot any piss takers.

The appeals will be for students to appeal their grades so won't act as any sort of check on the system. Some schools will be sensible, most won't and those that were realistic will feel resentful. That's what happened last year as well. Some schools and colleges gave crazy grades some followed the advice.

@cptartapp the dates are in the bbc article. Covid-19: A-level and GCSE results to be decided by teachers www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56157413

@NotDonna

I think there’s 2 types of appeals, one is a check to ensure added up correctly and the other is to check it was marked ‘fairly’ and followed guidelines. The papers are not remarked as I’d assumed. Heaven knows how they’d work on this scenario. Look at the evidence school had submitted and make a judgement on that? Sounds quite arbitrary with no Mark scheme or grade boundaries.

Can somone explain this please? What is the difference between checking it was marked "fairly" and followed guidelines [isn't this talking about hard marking that did not mark in accordance with guidelines?] and the comment "the papers are not remarked as I'd assumed." I have heard this before but have never understood the distinction. Thank you.

This is what ds1 feared.
Although he trusts his teachers he thinks universities and employers will assume inflated grades
He has worked SO hard :(

BelleSausage you sound knowledgable. That’s the concern, piss takers. Did they really exist last year? No-one minds borderline students being awarded the better of two grades, but piss takers on the other hand... Were there really? Will the DfE be monitoring that though? And how?

2020again it’s irrelevant this year as there’s no exams. Usually, school receives the actual Mark not just grade 6 etc. They also know the grade boundary. At our school if you were 1-2 marks away from the next grade they would appeal. The appeal process ensures firstly that the marks have been added up correctly and that there’s no admin errors. They then see if the Mark awarded is reasonable. The exam papers are not remarked. I think it’s unlikely to go up a grade unless there’s an issue in the adding up.

Also unless this has not been reported no comment regarding next years exams either - teachers (and students) desperate to know if after all the disruption of this year (and last year for those teaching 3 year GCSES) how syllabus etc will be amended. And....... nothing.

Why is everything so reactive and late?

Will this years Year 10 and 12 seriously be expected to take full "normal" exams after all the disruption this year? And that is before the disruption that is bound to follow once they are back in school in March. It is unfair and unhelpful not to be advising schools and teachers at this stage.

2020again so a the appeal ‘marker’ doesn’t actually remark the paper they only judge if it’s a reasonable mark. If a student get 44/50 but needs 45/50 for a B they don’t look for that extra mark.

I am surprised some of you think employers will hold inflated grades against individuals. Exam grades get you to the next stage of your learning - that is there purpose. I can count on one hand how many times in the last 30 years I was asked my results. Once your in a job employers couldn't care less as long as you are doing the job to the best of your ability, are punctual, hard working and have the right attitude. It's in everyones best interest that individuals are able to move on to the next stage in their lives isn't it?

"The devil will be in the detail. It looks like they’ve just gone ‘fuck-it, we can’t figure this out so we will pass the buck to teachers. Sorry, I meant trust teachers’"

Exactly my thoughts.

I feel so sad for DD1, my academic, consistently hardworking child. She deserves to have grades that have credibility. On the other hand, she will be relieved to learn that work that she has already done can count towards her final grade and it won't all rest in one final - as yet unknown content - exam. That has been stressing her out.

I agree with Not Donna though - the DofE should have gathered information to find out how many children are behind and by how much. My DD1 is not behind. I do wonder how it is fair she will be assessed on the whole A level chemistry curriculum and others might not, when the course gets progressively harder. It would have been good if there was different guidelines for specific subjects.

2020again indeed something needs to be said about current yr10 & yr12. Hopefully less disruption next year but this year has been tough for them too. They’ll no doubt push for exams to go ahead and they probably should, but they could be modified like they were this year (or meant to be if they’d gone ahead). I wonder if they’ll get out of it by saying schools should do catch up over summer? Eek.

@HappySonHappyMum

I am surprised some of you think employers will hold inflated grades against individuals. Exam grades get you to the next stage of your learning - that is there purpose. I can count on one hand how many times in the last 30 years I was asked my results. Once your in a job employers couldn't care less as long as you are doing the job to the best of your ability, are punctual, hard working and have the right attitude. It's in everyones best interest that individuals are able to move on to the next stage in their lives isn't it?

It’ll be harder to discern which are inflated and which aren’t though. Not all will be inflated. Some will have gotten the same grades as they would if they’d sat an exam. Perhaps employers and universities that are concerned will have applicants sit their own tests. Lots of graduate employers do that already.

@NotDonna

2020again it’s irrelevant this year as there’s no exams. Usually, school receives the actual Mark not just grade 6 etc. They also know the grade boundary. At our school if you were 1-2 marks away from the next grade they would appeal. The appeal process ensures firstly that the marks have been added up correctly and that there’s no admin errors. They then see if the Mark awarded is reasonable. The exam papers are not remarked. I think it’s unlikely to go up a grade unless there’s an issue in the adding up.

Hi NotDonna yes I realise that for this year it is not relevant but I just wanted to understand the positon as I never quite got it. Thanks very much for your reply.

So the second test is basically is the grade awarded the correct band for the marks achieved?

I know that the exams have specific and prescriptive marking schemes. Are none of the remarks where someone checks an answer against a mark scheme and says that answer got say 11 out of 12 marks (clearly in accordance with the mark scheme) but only 2 marks have been awarded - there must have been an error? Does that fall within the first test you mentioned? Thanks.

So will they get to finish the curriculum in all subjects? At what point will actual teaching stop?

@bigvig

So it’s the big picture that is the issue here for SLT. It is a very, very short sighted SLT (and there will be those around) who will inflate this year. Because that data hangs around for a long time and will be used to hold them to account for a long time.

So while data inflation is a short term win it can have a pretty horrible knock on effect on future Ofsted inspections- they look at all your past data before they come into school. It will be quite difficult to explain why your value added was +1.2 this year and then -0.9 for the year after and then the subsequent year.

A school can only dine out (as it were) on one very good set of results for so long.

And, as far as moderation is concerned- you are right that usually the exam board offers two services. The first is just a recount of the marks and the second is a full remark. But that is when they hold the papers and can do as they please.

This year we will be the only ones with the evidence. I would suspect that if a student challenges a grade the exam board will be asking for all the evidence you used to arrive at that grade. Wow betide any school who has a few of those that are wildly out of line.

Not for nothing do I have fevered nightmares the night before I send off a cohorts worth of NEAs. No one wants the exam board to decide you are a cheater and send moderators in to school.

So will teachers now be trying to finish the courses before June with end of topic tests for evidence or will they stop new content and consolidate current learning, test and retest to get the best evidence possible?

2020again Im not entirely sure how they decide the paper has been reasonably marked without remarking it. Especially when most papers put forward for appeal are a couple of marks away from the next grade. I’d have thought if a paper was 1-2 marks away from a grade it’s still likely have been marked ‘reasonably’. When I used to moderate university papers, I’d remark them but if my mark was there or thereabouts the original mark would remain. It would only be highlighted if it was hugely different. I’m wondering if appeals are done in a similar way but not remarked.
I think it’s rarer now to get a successful appeal.

Good point about when the teaching will stop. I have DD in year 11 (did mocks in December) and a DD in year 10.

DD year 11 is desperate to know what will happen and if they will be at school til the bitter end ie July (surely not). She's had enough ( there is no way she would get on board with repeating the year - terrible idea) and her head is looking towards 6th form now........

@NotDonna

2020again indeed something needs to be said about current yr10 & yr12. Hopefully less disruption next year but this year has been tough for them too. They’ll no doubt push for exams to go ahead and they probably should, but they could be modified like they were this year (or meant to be if they’d gone ahead). I wonder if they’ll get out of it by saying schools should do catch up over summer? Eek.

I have n't seen all the detail but they are not talking about catching up the GCSE and A level syllabuses are they - it looked to me like help was aimed at younger children anyway? None of the few teachers I know are even entertaining the thought of teaching GCSE syllabuses over the Summer; little chance of whole cohorts of children coming in.

I don't think there is any realistic chance of public exam syllabuses "effectively" being caught up over the Summer.

@NotDonna

Sensible schools will use the assessment papers that are going to be provided by the exam board. Lots of us are waiting to see the content of those before deciding.

But I would suspect that it will be pick and choose. We have done almost all the content but will probably choose to assess the stuff covered most recently I.e.- this year.

@NotDonna no she did get normal teaching til mid march of yr 10, but then very little input/ feedback.

I just wanted to make the point that even in ‘outstanding’ schools the curriculum coverage h.as been patchy.

So the second test is basically is the grade awarded the correct band for the marks achieved?

I know that the exams have specific and prescriptive marking schemes. Are none of the remarks where someone checks an answer against a mark scheme and says that answer got say 11 out of 12 marks (clearly in accordance with the mark scheme) but only 2 marks have been awarded - there must have been an error? Does that fall within the first test you mentioned? Thanks.

The first check is what they call a clerical check, and the example you give would fall under that: have any mistakes been made in the process of marking the paper, either a 2 being written down when a 12 was given, or a mistake made in the adding up.

The second check is that the original examiner applied the mark scheme accurately to the paper. So if they gave a question 6 out of 10, can that mark be justified according to the marking criteria?

People still think papers are re-marked - they're not. We just check to ensure that the original examiner's marks can be objectively supported by the assessment criteria.

Grades are irrelevant to us, by the way: we work with numbers and the mark scheme. When I'm marking as an examiner, obviously the grade boundaries haven't yet been fixed for that session, and when I check scripts during the Enquiries About Results period, I never look at the grade boundaries for my paper. We're not looking for that extra two marks a student needs to get the next grade up, I'm afraid.