Exams cancelled 2

[Orangeblossom1977]

Started a new thread as last one is full.

@ENesbit

Am I missing something? Why is no one addressing the mis-match between the basis on which A level grades are now being awarded and the basis on which UCAS offers were made? My daughter received her predicted grades and 5 UCAS offers last November, all on the basis of expected exam results , but now schools are being told that if a student is currently working at B , but their trajectory would have indicated an A in the actual exams, they must be awarded a B?

The mind boggles. DS' college has "on course" grades but I don't know if they are based on what they think you would have got in exams or the level they're working at now and what they're likely to get if they continue on that trajectory,

DS got 4 offers based on the fact exams would happen, and the last one was when we knew they weren't going to happen but didn't know how grades would be awarded.

If they do give lower grades this year that will forever disadvantage this year group. Employers still ask for A level grades even when you have a PhD and have been working for years (and I was asked for my GCSE certificates when I was 40!)

What a mess. Good luck to uni admissions trying to sort this out :(

By this point of the year, there aren't many surprises. UCAS predicted grades are made too early (imo) and that is why they appear "inaccurate".

The grade profile has to stay the same. Grades won't be wholesale lower than 2017-19.

mayneedabiscuit

I wondered the same as you. There are a lot of Year 13s whose learning has suffered because their mental health took a nosedive. If a school are assessing those kids on where they are, it's feasible to assume there are more students than in previous years, who aren't working at their potential, and won't get a C grade in any mocks or tests taken in the next 2 months. But how will the school then have a grade profile that looks similar to previous years if they have more students with Es or Us? Or will the school have to choose some students to elevate to a C grade, even though they haven't completed as much work and can't demonstrate the competence of other students who are getting a C grade?

ENesbit I think the Universities have behaved appallingly. My DD hasn't firmed yet, and many of her friends haven't. They're so uncertain of what grades they will get, even if they were previously certain they were working at the right level to meet the offer of their preferred uni.

I watched the video from the college posted below. I have to say I admire them for saying they will let their students know what grade they are being given as it will help them know which ucas offer to accept. What a mad system it is in normal years.

What schools will do is rank the students, grade, then check the grade profile. If it doesn't fit they will revise and revisit the grading.
If your DC are in small classes, the grade profile is less relevant. Grade profile carries more weight the bigger the cohort. We have a subject with ~5 students per year, the grade profile is irrelevant in that case.

A C grade isn't a one score thing in a normal year. There's always the top score in a grade boundary and the bottom score. This allows for the student work not being all the same but still both getting a C.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation will schools be ranking this year again?

Of course they will, as part of their internal grading process. Impossible to do without it.

I agree the media have no clue. No journalist will aim to convey the true picture of what is happening if they can get a bigger click rate from going with the hyped up story of grade inflation.

Honestly, I think we're going to see exactly what we did last year. Some schools (not all) will submit inflated grades; they'll be moderated down (possibly in a different way from last year); then there will be shrieks of disappointment from those grades are then lower; a media storm; and after a bit of flapping first the Scots will fold and say everyone gets their A*s, and then after a bit more flapping so will England.

@Ellmau how will they be moderated down?
I agree some schools will give inflated grades but I can't see anyone moderating them down.
Do you see this happening in between the date they are submitted to the exams boards but before the children are told?

Thanks to everyone for the info. Can anyone (e.g. teachers) elaborate on ENesbit's post about the grading info on page 26? This is precisely what I am worried about i.e. that mostly the grades have been decided and the tests will just be used to confirm. My DD recently received 'working at' grades and 1 of her grades was a complete surprise. Having now looked at her recent scores it really doesn't add up. When I saw it I was immediately concerned that they have done a lot of work already on grading/ranking and they are 'preparing' the students for their grades. The teachers are taking a 'talk to the hand' approach when it comes to grades.

If their 'working at' is what they should be given acording to JQC then why do more exams? My DD really pulled it off at GCSE and has consistently improved during sixth form. I am happy to accept if she isn't good enough for an 'A' but when the scores indicate she is I feel I need to fight her corner early.

The assessments being done now are, for the most part, going to be the evidence of the grade they are at now. By "now" we mean the date the final submission happens, obviously the students work needs to be marked and moderated so now is probably end of May.

You shouldn't contact the school. Any attempt by parents to influence the grade can be seen as malpractice. Instead your dd should ask. You can also appeal afterwards.

The worse thing is that these mini exams aren't going to be set at the same times. Mickey mouse qualifications printed on Disney headed paper here we come...

I am happy to accept if she isn't good enough for an 'A' but when the scores indicate she is I feel I need to fight her corner early.

You can't. You can only let the process run its course and then appeal afterwards if you think the grade is incorrect. You can appeal to the school if you think that a clerical error has been made, but otherwise, it will get passed on to the exam board to deal with.

The assessments being done now are, for the most part, going to be the evidence of the grade they are at now.
Not in our school. First and only mocks ever taken in November in our school are going to count towards grades by 50% in some subjects.
If I question their policy is this seen as trying to influence my child's grade (so malpractice) if I don't mention my child personally?
Don't I have a right to question the ridiculous policy?
Can no parent contact the school to ask personal questions anymore in this stressful confusing time?

Yes questioning the policy could be seen as malpractice. You would need to appeal to the exam board after the results are out and have them review the evidence. You'd be appealing not on the basis of administrative error, instead that the grade awarded does not reflect the evidence shown.

Do colleges look at GCSE predications against the grades they came out with, i.e., to have an idea of how they work? Until Dec, Year 13 thought they were working towards peaking at the summer exams.
DS1 for example, got higher grades than predicted in more than half of his GCSE's, by up to two levels in some cases. He's most certainly not been producing his best A level work for most of last year.
I still find it unbelievable that last years cohort who missed very little were given grades on what they would have achieved on a good day. This years whose learning has mostly been done remotely in many cases, should be given grades on what they would have achieved on an exceptionally good day. Removing a handful of topics to test them on isn't enough compensation IMO.

"Thanks to everyone for the info. Can anyone (e.g. teachers) elaborate on ENesbit's post about the grading info on page 26? This is precisely what I am worried about i.e. that mostly the grades have been decided and the tests will just be used to confirm. My DD recently received 'working at' grades and 1 of her grades was a complete surprise. Having now looked at her recent scores it really doesn't add up. When I saw it I was immediately concerned that they have done a lot of work already on grading/ranking and they are 'preparing' the students for their grades. The teachers are taking a 'talk to the hand' approach when it comes to grades."

That's where we are too 2021vision. All indications given by DDs teachers for chemistry is that she was working at a level where she should safely achieve an A and they sometimes mentioned that the A* could be within her reach depending on how hard she worked and if she attended the lunchtime clinics, up to the final exams. January came along, exams were cancelled, and we were emailed a report in February, for the first time indicating she is working at a B level. I also feel like her college have already ranked the students and matched them to historic grades, and the report was sent out to manage expectations.

It's possible she dropped a little in attainment in 2 tests carried out in November - of work covered during lockdown 1 - during a week when the college were springing tests on them in all subjects. I've since found out she was not allowed to attend any chemistry clinics between September and December to go over anything she had not consolidated during the first lockdown, as the clinics were reserved for lower achieving students! They haven't done formal mocks as their January mocks were scrapped.

In case she is awarded a B, and we need to appeal, I'm getting DD to screen print the dashboard of the VLE which shows all her previous test grades, plus we have the previous reports which have her working at a A grade. The report we got in February was the first mention of a B ever.

She has tests between Easter and May half term, but unless she overtakes those who are higher achievers than her, it won't matter what she does, as the department head will draw the grade boundary where they need to draw it to fit historic data.

I would have liked to see 6th forms have to look at the current cohorts's GCSE results to determine the expectations of the cohort, rather than students who took their A levels 3 or 4 years ago. I just can't imagine a massive 6th form college looks that similar from year to year.

I just can't imagine a massive 6th form college looks that similar from year to year.

Statistically it is more likely that a massive college looks really similar year on year than a smaller sixth form. The grade profiles are also linked to prior attainment data.

They will be looking at the GCSE results of the students and taking them into account. If you have a more able cohort, their grades should be higher. Ofqual will accept that when looking/moderating.

I’ve now watched this all the way through and love the transparency this school offers. So many schools seem to be very secretive and rather cloak & dagger about their processes. Love the ‘estimated grades’ they’re giving BUT they did November mocks, lots of schools including ours have had zero mocks albeit I’m sure they’ve to s if data given they’re constantly testing. Schools could hint likely grades for A levels so university decisions can be made pre June 10th. Withholding this information seems very unfair. Ours in normal times would have had Feb mocks which would have helped the decision making process.

schools aren’t hinting at grades; aren’t being transparent about their processes; yet any questioning from a parent or student is deemed malpractice?

fortyfifty the general belief is that cohorts change less the larger they are. If there’s 8 doing a course it can change much more significantly between the cohorts than if there were 80.

School should be as transparent as possible. We are telling students which evidence we are using but not any grade information yet. We aren't "pre weighting" any of the data. Instead it will be an overall holistic view.

There should be a conversation re expected grades at some point. This is to avoid any surprises in August. SLT are doing that here, having a 1:1 with every student.

@fortyfifty - yes we are thinking the same. At this point I want to say that I am NOT in anyway blaming teachers etc for this. The sense I get from my DD is that her teachers hands are tied, they seem afraid to say anything and are (mostly) being very supportive. The message from the school has very much been 'stay away', I know from DD that other parents are not impressed.

Anyway, I won't be contacting the school directly. My DD has spoken to her teachers and like you, fortyfifty, I am collecting data. I get the impression that DDs school, I am sure like many, are desperate to avoid appeals. This is fine and I won't appeal if I see the data it and the explanation for a possible missed grade is logical.

The problem with 'A' leves is that there is so much pinning on the grade and with the potential lack of clearing places this year, the pressure is just sky high. I am trying to remain calm however can't help but worry. If DD doesn't get the grades the fallout will be, as for many of us, huge.

I am trying to remain calm however can't help but worry. If DD doesn't get the grades the fallout will be, as for many of us, huge.

This is the same every year. Only most years you can "blame" the exam board whereas this year you have a face and a name to "blame" (school/college). I understand it feels unfair/different/unfamiliar, but the doubt would be there any year.

The difference between an A and a B at A level shouldn't be a huge fallout. If you have built up a particular path as being the only way to success then going to a different university may feel huge, but in the grand scheme of things it really isn't.

The difference this year is you can blame the different school policies!
Other years it is a level playing field.
This year it is not.

The school policies have to be different though. It would be impossible to make them the same.

It depends on your definition of "level playing field" to argue that other years are that.

Actually I disagree it is different this year. If DC have the opportunity to sit exams there is no 'blaming' going on, if the exam is hard then everyone finds it hard and boundaries are adjusted. Essentially it rests on the student - everyone is sitting the same exam. OK you might have had a not so great teacher or been ill however the playing field is as level as it can be.

This year, imo, there is too much room for inequality this year, starting within a school.

Lastly, I disagree that the difference between and 'A' and a 'B' isn't big. It's the difference between getting a place at your uni of choice and not having a place to study. I think my friend's daughter who missed out her Oxford place as she got a 'B' instead of the required 'A' would disagree.

I agree @2021Vision
I would also like to say the difference between a 3 and 4 in English and maths is huge. A whole year extra in studying! That matters on a very individual level.