Triple science or 2 humanities?

[ithavebroke]

Ds is about to choose his options. He excels at humanities (he's like an old historian trapped in a child's body...) and all three teachers were saying how good he'd be and how he would be sure to get grade 8 or 9. He is also excelling in English and he also loves drama and that teacher was similarly enthusiastic about his prospects. He's determined to take drama and history and is now torn between geography or triple science.

His science teachers have no concerns about him doing triple but it's not a subject he excels in so I don't think he'd get 8s or 9s. He enjoys science and finds it interesting and also wants to stay with his friends, who are all doing triple and who are all stronger in it than him. He's worried he won't enjoy it as much if he doesn't do triple as he'll be in a lower set, which in his school tends to mean behaviour issues, and the work may not be as interesting as it may not be taught to such a high level.

I think it's a trade off between enjoying the lessons and the experience but having lower grades or ending up with more of the top grades but not enjoying the experience of science as much (he'll have it every day either way). So will it matter about all his grades when it comes to A level/degree? He's interested in law and I don't want him to close any doors by poor choices at this age. Will lack of triple science be frowned upon even if it's not a science degree he wants?

Some schools don't even offer triple science, so I don't think it's going to be a problem not having it. You can do A-level sciences with just double science (although some schools expect triple), but it sounds like he's not heading that direction anyway.

Talk to the school about how he would sit in the double/triple sets. One of my daughter's friends is floundering in the triple set, because he's a bit weaker than most of the group. Not doing triple might mean not being in the top set, but it doesn't necessarily mean being in a low set either - the chances are he'd end up in a group with other people heading for 6/7 who are more into humanities or languages.

I asked the question as about triple Vs double at parents evening.

Teacher said doing double was no issue if DC wanted to do science a levels.

If that helps.

My opinion is doing what you enjoy rather than being with your mates is the best approach.

At dc's school they recommend only doing double science if you have absolutely no intention of doing anything remotely science related at A-level or beyond. It seems to be that most don't want to close options at this age so vast majority do triple science and only the weaker kids end up doing double science.

Of course it doesn't mean you can't do science at A-level but it does put you at a disadvantage especially if all the others in the class have done triple.

Do science, unless he thinks he might want to do geography at a level. Go for what he enjoys.

Our school triple science isn't a choice. Only top set are allowed to do triple and the rest do double. The ones who do double don't get to take another option instead.

Is he likely to do any science A levels do you think? If so, there is a bigger jump if you've done double, tho not an impossible one.

If he is unlikely/certainly not going to choose science post-16 (as I infer) then his main reason for doing triple seems to be that he fears a disruptive double set.

In a school where the most able do triple (eg my dcs') this might well be the case, but if it's an option I agree with a pp, aren't you simply going to be in a set of students who have chosen history or drama over triple? So not as such weaker or poorly behaved?

If he likes geography then do that. If he prefers science do that. Getting a 6/7 instead of an 8 is unlikely to affect his future unless he is looking at Oxford or Cambridge.

Thank you for all the advice. I should have said he enjoys all the subjects under consideration, though geography is something he likes to read about (the human side anyway) whereas with the sciences if he doesn't cover it at school he's not likely to find out about it.

He is considering an Oxbridge application so that side is a worry. However, their website (Oxford) says the majority of candidates have GCSEs at 7-9, so should be okay with a 7, which I think is within his reach. We also live in an area where offers would be contextual.

His science target is an 8, but as we know that has been generated from English and Maths SATs I'm sure how helpful it is. His school uses the 1-9 system for all assessments from Y7 (not sure how they go about it exactly...) and in KS3 science he tended to get 6s and 7s. In Y9 they start the GCSE stuff and get the specialist teachers and since then he feels it is being much better taught. He's done one physics assessment so far and got a 9. I think they rush through it in years 7-8.

So hard that at 13 and having missed a lot of time in school over the last year (though their remote provision has been good) they have to make decisions that could affect their whole lives!

Difficult - we’ve had similar discussions here but not over Science and for Year 9 ‘trial options’. DH & DD believing that she should select an option she enjoys but doesn’t excel in (Drama) over a second MFL (Spanish) she finds very easy and according to the Teacher has a talent for.

As others has said, if he is unlikely to be doing Science A’s then not doing the Triple is unlikely to impact him. I would be steering him towards Geography (the Physical side is interesting). If he ends up doing Law (and honestly, what 13 year old really knows what they want to do, DD2 currently wants to be an Archaeologist during the day and world famous singer in the evening -I’m certainly not looking at university prospectuses at this point :-)!) then from what I understand, many Lawyers have done Humanities degrees, particularly History.

He shouldn't pick a subject on the basis his friends might do it - is the school small enough that he can really guarantee they will be in the same class??

You seem to be making the assumption that combined science is easier than triple science, which is not the case - there's just less of it - so there is no particular reason to think he will get better grades if he takes it (unless your school teaches triple science in the same number of hours as combined science so covers a lot of extra content in the same time). Also - remember there will be other children like your DS who are good at science, but have just opted to focus on other things and are in the combined science group, so it won't just be the weaker scientists. If the school sets, there should be a "top" combined science set which will be working a good standard. Both combined and triple science have foundation and higher papers, so the school will most definitely be teaching the higher material to all students taking the higher paper regardless of whether combined/triple.

The vast majority of kids at our (private) school, unless they were going into a career like medicine or some other that required a lot of scince, took dual science. If he would be in a lower set than his friends anyway why would he want to do triple? My daughter is hoping to pursue a career in the creative arts but did choose triple as she just likes it (and is predicted 8s). In fact she is probably going to do biology A level as she just likes the subject.
If your son is humanities driven then by all means let him do subjects he enjoys. I can't see how doing dual science would disadvantage him.

Hi @ithavebroke!

We can't have everything at every stage. So, History or Law degree and a career in Law? Children also change a lot up to the age of 22 or 23, so it's worth keeping a few options open.

I would think about Maths A Level and work back from there. It's good for all subjects. (A lot of Cambridge Historians and Lawyers in my daughter's cohort have it, for example.) Apart from that, I would do the maximum GCSE subjects I enjoyed, irrespective of anything else.

I don't think it's very often the case that the exact choice of GCSEs affects getting into university courses. I think you only need to worry about closing off any A-level options they might be interested in.

I know someone who wanted to go into musical theatre, and so chose drama, music and graphic design for GCSE, meaning she did not do enough subjects for the EBacc. She changed her mind somewhere along the line, and got into Cambridge to read Law.

Why would doing double science put him in a lower set? Doesn't doing triple science take up one option? Not all pupils want to follow a science route, and loads of pupils at DD's school who got all As and A*s (old GCSEs in 2016) only took double science, but they used their extra option to take another art or humanities subject instead.

What does he enjoy, and what subjects is he most likely to get the best grades in? What A levels would he be interested in taking? If he is looking at Oxbridge the grades are more important than the subjects.

Biology/science teacher here. Hopefully I can shed some light on the course if that helps.

The difference between separates and combined science is obviously an increase in content however some schools run the triple class in the same option blocks as they would double. They do this for top set so the top set get the triple award in the same time everyone else does the double. A lot of the triple only content is an extension of the topics they already cover. This is worth considering if it is a toss up between adding in extra science or starting a whole new subject. If he is looking at grade 7 for science then I would say he is likely to be a good candidate. If he really works hard for his end of topic tests and does well he may well be bumped up sets as this is the data normally used.

I would let him do the two humanities, given what you say about him.

I teach 11-18 maths and have seen plenty of students through university applications.

It won't matter for his a-levels; he can do science at a level either way.

If he wants to do law at university it will be of benefit for him to have the highest grades possible at both GCSE and A-level.

So he needs to decide whether he thinks he would do better with his friends (who can help him and maybe be more motivated) or whether he'd do better with less content (less to learn) but in a crappy class. Friends shouldn't matter but in reality they do.

Hmm, he seems to think there is one top set science and that is the only one that does triple - you can't get in that set unless you get a 6 in the end of KS3 test. If that's right, he's already in that set and so are all his best friends.

Although it sounds bad wanting to be with his friends, I don't think it really is. They kind of spur each other on and I think they do help him a bit with science. In subjects that are taught in mixed ability groups (hums mainly) he does get frustrated with the messing about. But these subjects do come easily do him - he barely drops a mark in assessments so maybe he should stick with them thinking of his future. It's hard...

DD was torn as she wants to go into veterinary medicine or other animal science related topics.

The school made it very clear that double science does not hinder her doing Biology and Chemistry A-level and no university will ask for it. She plans to do sixth form there so no real need to check other school’s requirements.

We found it more beneficial to have a more rounded GCSE with another non-science subject than going purely with science at that age.

She will do drama, history and sociology along the mandatory science, .English, maths and MLF ones.

My daughter only did double and then only two sciences at A level.

She’s now a 4th-year medic who has done very well in her exams.

oneglass your DD started her GCSEs 8 years ago. ‘Some’ schools back then called taking 2 science subjects ‘double science’, but got Biology GCSE and Chemistry GCSE and covered no physics, for example. So a move to A levels in those 2 subjects is a little more straightforward. Now double science is all three sciences but 2/3rds of each one, still get two GCSEs. So the move to A level is more of a leap as there’s a third missing from each science gcse. Lots still do it but it obviously harder work. Triple sciences is 3/3rds of all 3.
For what it’s worth OP I don’t think your son will go too far wrong with choosing exactly what he wants to do. He sounds very capable and can justify his reasons.

Actually what my daughter did was
The 2/3 of the three subjects nonna. She did physics, biology and chemistry but received two, not three, GCSES.

Actually what my daughter did was The 2/3 of the three subjects nonna. She did physics, biology and chemistry but received two, not three, GCSES.

@NotDonna That was how double science was done in 2016 when DD took her GCSEs. Basically the double science students sat papers one and two of all three sciences, and the triple science students sat papers one, two and three. So they did 9 science exams instead of 6. I'm pretty sure that this was the norm everywhere, even before then.

If you are worried that not being in the triple science group means he'll be in a mixed ability group, why don't you ask "if he does double science, will he be in a group with other people aiming for similar grades or will it be completely mixed ability?"
I suspect he will not be in a mixed ability group, but a group that is "set 2" only probably slightly better as there are bound to be a few of them who are good enough for set 1 but didn't want to do triple.