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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Top grammar or good comp for extremely bright but sensitive DS?

45 replies

Racquelscottish · 04/02/2021 19:59

As above really, we are in London. DS is very bright, excellent at maths and science. The closest school to us is a really "good" grammar, lots of London parents aim for it. It does get very good results. People say it is not very nurturing, not great parent communication, and seems quite segregated into grammar stream and non grammar stream. We're actually not in catchment despite living a few streets away but I think DS would get a place via selection.

Other school is a bit further away, is now rated good but not very very academic, they don't send many kids to top universities but they are really trying. Great pastoral support, nice community feel, very arty. It's about a 20 minute bus or a 40 minute walk away.

DH and I both went to grammar schools and vowed we would never send our kids there! Our experience was that they were very competitive, very snobby, didn't care about anything but grades. DS isn't the most confident kid, he likes his circle of friends but I worry about bullying and find that almost more important than academics really as he is likely to do well regardless. Am I looking at this wrong? Am I obligated to send him to the best possible school that will push for the best possible results so that he has the best chance in life? I don't really want my kid to have a skewed view of the kind of people who live in his local community, our experience of state grammars was that it was all middle class kids, quite a lot of very rich kids too.

The other thing is that the grammar school is so close by, would be very handy to have a five minute walk to school...

OP posts:

flourandeggs · 05/02/2021 08:08

We looked at and decided against going for our local grammars for our children who we were told were bright enough. Firstly they are single sex which we didn’t want (the girls one has very high rates of eating disorders and self harm) they are also the schools that you hear about children leaving from mid way through more than the local privates or the comp. We went for the comp, our children have found lovely friends, are in the high sets and are relaxed, happy, joyful even about school. I didn’t want stressed children I wanted them to feel there was no pressure to succeed from us or their school, I wanted them to slowly find their way to becoming their own people. So far we are delighted with it. I love the poem ‘do not ask your children to strive for extraordinary lives, such striving may seem admirable but it is the way of foolishness. Help them instead find the wonder and marvel of an ordinary life...’. It is hard to trust your gut when others are going a different path, some of the parents around here get so stressed about grammar that they have ended up with their own mental health isssues and it is hard to see how seriously they take it and not feel you aren’t ‘doing enough’ however a few years in I realise that top set comp kids and grammar school kids are achieving in the same way and that I know a handful who have been pulled out of grammar for mental health reasons so for us it has been the right decision.

thecatfromjapan · 05/02/2021 08:18

Honestly, OP, the answers you're going to get on this thread are largely going to be about grammars. You'd have had more useful help if you hadn't described G as a grammar.

It really isn't.

There's a world of difference between G and the grammars. The boys grammars (Sutton, Kingston) are very different in ethos and spirit. Although they have excellent music and art departments, the culture at the grammars are somewhat determined by the fact they are single-sex and the majority of the boys who go there are focused on STEM careers.
The culture at Graveney is incredibly different. It's quite Xtinction Rebellion, hanging out on the Common, playing in bands, to be honest.
On the other hand, the school is so vast, there will be a niche your child settles into.
But because you've framed the question as being about Grammars, you're going to get quite Grammar-specific answers.

Punxsutawney · 05/02/2021 08:23

My bright but sensitive child had an awful time at his grammar. I was appalled at the behaviour, bullying that he suffered from other students and staff, poor teaching and complete lack of any kind of pastoral care. Ds also has an SEN that was not adequately supported. His grammar seemed to suit those that weren't at the top end of ability but were super confident, self assured and good at sports. For young people like Ds, it was not a nice place to be.

From personal experience, the comp/secondary modern would be my choice.

AlwaysLatte · 05/02/2021 08:40

Following - my son has three grammars on his application form - one super selective that he may just get into, one ordinary grammar and one in between. Then a non-grammar. He'll probably get the 2nd grammar as long as it's not too oversubscribed (distance varies). He's very bright but he's got inattentive ADHD and struggles to knuckle down and work without us literally sitting by him. Always been in tears about going to school. His brother is in year 8 and went to grammar school in year 7. He absolutely hated it (said the kids and teachers were unfriendly), hated the bus etc. We tried driving him there and back which helped s bit but he was still begging to move. In the end we pulled him out and he joined the non grammar in year 8. He loves it, and the people. Although he did get one child try to bully him but he's very tall and strong for his age and put him in his place and it didn't happen again. I don't know whether to accept the grammar place for the youngest when we get it as I don't want to repeat what happened with DS1. He's smaller and more sensitive too. So difficult, wish I had a crystal ball!

Hersetta427 · 05/02/2021 11:04

I agree this thread has been derailed slightly as you erroneously used the tittle 'top grammar' when you discussed Graveney. It isn't even a grammar. I think you might get a better, more reasoned set of responses if you ask a new question about Graveney (with its name in the thread title) and ask for opinions.

MrsBlueApple · 05/02/2021 11:19

Agree the school yoi are talking is not a grammar at all, it's a massive comprehensive with a grammar stream. Have you thought about the Sutton grammars? My sensitive, sciency DC is very happy at one of them

blowonitthen · 05/02/2021 12:48

The schools themselves are more important than 'grammar or comp'. Too many variables.

My sensitive DS is at a London super-selective Grammar and a family member also works there. All perspectives are overwhelmingly positive. It is an incredible school that cares about the well-being of the boys and their development into decent young men. It is possible to be nurturing and get good results.

Saying that, you do need to be realistic about both your child's ability and personality. Some high-achieving DC may prefer not to be with so many other high-achieving DC (especially if they are used to being top and will not like the feeling of no longer being top), whereas others thrive in that environment.

dizzydizzydizzy · 05/02/2021 18:40

I wanted DD1 to go to a grammar school but unfortunately she didn't pass the 11+. She ended up going to the nearest comp and absolutely blossomed there. She got 10 GCSEs all at 8 or 9 and 4 A Levels at A*. Because most of the very bright kids round here go to grammar school, the comps don't get many kids like her so she really stood out. The teachers gave her lots of extra challenges etc.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 05/02/2021 18:42

Graveney is not a grammar school. It’s a partially selective school. And yes, quite a bit of rumours of bullying there.

AveEldon · 06/02/2021 11:54

Just to add Ashcroft, Chestnut Grove, Burntwood and Ernest Bevin are also partially selective

ittakes2 · 06/02/2021 14:22

Thats a tricky one because of the travel - I would normally recommend the school closest as it helps with friendships.
I have twins - both went to grammars but my son went to an artys local co-ed grammar where she went to a high performing all girls grammar. Unfort her school turned out to be an exam sweat shop and Year 7 was a disaster for her confidence. We pulled her out and sent her to private. Maybe things would have gotten better but her confidence was so knocked that 2 years later we are still dealing with the fallout. I regret sending her to such a stressful environment. I have come to the conclusion in life that you need to consider what a child wants to do for A levels / in life. The thing about a top performing grammar is they expect you to perform exceptionally well in all subjects. I am just getting my kids to perform exceptionally well in the subjects they need decent scores in to get into the A level programmes they might be interested in.
One thing worth looking into is that my understanding with uni places is that they with grammars they are in demand - just because he's at a grammar doesn't mean he will get a place at the uni he wants to go to. He might do better at the local comprehensive.

Dilbertian · 06/02/2021 17:42

We had a similar dilemma: 2 extremely bright but socially awkward dc. We looked at the grammar but decided to send them to the local comp, which appeared to focus very much on the individual and to have very good pastoral care.

It was absolutely the right choice. When ds went to look round the grammar for 6th Form, he came back and told me "You made the right choice." He may not have achieved the 3As he was predicted at A-level, but he's at a top university, studying the subject he loves, and having the time of his life - because the nurturing ethos of his school opened his mind to so much more than exam attainment and gave him the opportunity to develop social skills and life skills.

As for dd, her mental health is taking a severe battering since this time last year and the school have been incredibly supportive and constructive throughout.

Dilbertian · 06/02/2021 17:45

TBH I think ds would have thrived academically in the grammar. But he would not have turned out as well-rounded or as nice a person.

Kingstonlifer · 07/02/2021 12:42

Just to comment on grammars. It's true when another poster had said that it could be a bit of a shock when a DC is used to being top of the class, then possibly find themselves as 'average' (average for a highly selective grammar is above average elsewhere, mind!). So it does depend on the child. My DC was completely fine with it, but some may not be.

Kingstonlifer · 07/02/2021 12:48

And I do object with what dilbertian has just said. How do you know your DC wouldn't have turned out to be as "well rounded" or "as nice a person"?? You are retro fitting your choice. There are plenty of lovely well rounded DC at my DC's grammar!

2021hastobebetter · 07/02/2021 12:56

Grammar

Kingstonlifer · 07/02/2021 13:01

Also, what dizzydizzydizzy said about very bright DC getting more opportunities at comprehensives. Certainly was true of a daughter of a friend of mine. She stood out from the crowd and was given extra by teachers. put onto Oxbridge programme etc

Dilbertian · 07/02/2021 14:05

@Kingstonlifer

He said so himself, during his first year at university. The grammar is single sex, the comp mixed. The grammar is heavily focused on academic subjects and all non-academic subjects and extra-curriculars have competitive objectives. They have a fabulous theatre, but only use it for Prizegiving. Ds would have missed out on learning social skills through mixing with girls on both social and academic levels, and through involvement in theatre and music (he's a total science geek).

Kingstonlifer · 07/02/2021 19:52

Again, how would he know that he wouldn't have been "as nice a person". A very odd thing to say and suggest. I hope my DC doesn't turn out to be not as nice as they could have been because they went to a grammar.

Dilbertian · 07/02/2021 22:52

You know that's not what I'm saying.

For my ds, a highly competitive, single-sex grammar would not have provided what he needed to become well-rounded. Part of being a nice person is understanding that others are different to you, have different perspectives and abilities, and enbracing this. Ds being who he is, would not have learned this in a highly competitive, single-sex environment.

That does not mean it would be the same for other boys.

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