St Marylebone vs Stokey vs Clapton Girls

[purpleturtle1]

Hi all,
Newbie here who’s finally got around to posting. My eldest DD is in year 5 so thinking more about secondary schools. We live in Stoke Newington so Stokey is an obvious choice - I think we’d be in catchment - and it’s likely to be DD’s first choice, as it’s where most of her primary school friends will probably be going; it’s a 10-minute walk away; and she’s always said she would prefer a mixed school (I went to a girls’ secondary school myself so well aware of the pros and cons of each). Clapton Girls is another possibility - we might be on the edge of catchment. And because we’re church goers (or performing arts scholarship for drama or singing?) Marylebone is also a possibility. We know of several local families whose daughters attend or have attended there.
Any thoughts on any of the above? It feels as if Marylebone is the outstanding “state school that’s a bit like a private school and parents would saw their right arms off for their daughters to attend”. A couple of people I know have said we’d be crazy not to go for that if we could get in - but DD would have quite a long commute and maybe few local friends... Clapton Girls also seems to get only glowing reports. I hear more mixed things about Stokey, but am tempted by the idea of a local school... and I have to say I also know of several families who are very happy with Stokey (as opposed to those who are just passing on rumours iykwim).
I know we’ll be doing visits in the autumn (hopefully in person!!) and DD may then have her own strong opinions about where she’d like to go, but feel like I want to do a bit more research at this stage (I have already looked up previous Mumsnet threads on these schools but just wondered if people have current opinions!) DD very academic and also very sociable. We did consider Latymer but decided not to tutor (ie she won’t be sitting the exam) for probably predictable reasons. I know Mossbourne is another consideration but DD (and me) very put off by what we hear!
Also, for any Mumsnetters (not just those who know the above schools) - how do you weigh up “amazing school with long commute” vs. “Just-good school that’s a 10 minute walk away”? I’m struggling with this at the moment I think. Also, who has the ultimate say - I know ideally it’s a choice that you and DC make together, but how much weight do you give to parents’ and DC’s relative preferences?
Any answers most welcome. Thank you!

I was in similar position to you several years ago. I'm in Stokey, just around the corner from Stoke Newington HS. My DD ended up going to St. Marylebone, and I'm very glad she did (as is she). We never considered Clapton, as we were too far out of catchment.

Academically, there's no comparison - St. M is miles ahead of Stokey, but they aren't a hothouse, iykwim. St. M has excellent pastoral care as well. Basically, St. M sets very high standards of work and behaviour, without being quite so regimented as Mossbourne (no disrespect to Mossbourne - I know some kids there really thrive).

Stokey has a bad history of tolerating sexual harassment. I know personally of at least three girls who transferred out of Stokey in one year after incidents. I wouldn't send a girl there, unless she was incredibly psychologically and physically tough. Even then, why should a 14 year old deal with comments about her body on the way to Chemistry?

Another upside to St. M is that it is far more mixed - racially, culturally, economically than Stokey. Her friends come from all over London and aren't just children of white Hackney creatives (and I'm a white Hackney creative!).

About the commute - this was my biggest worry, but actually, it's been fine. DD uses the commute (obviously no commuting lately) to chat with friends, decompress, and sometimes study. Because the upside is that she's become incredibly independent, travelling around London by tube and bus and overground. She LOVES giving tourists directions.

Feel free to message me if you'd like any further info.

@purpleturtle1Just go in with eyes wide open. St M really isn't like a private school, we know several girls who have transferred out to various independents in Yrs 7, 8, and for sixth form. Equally we know some that have enjoyed their time there, the expectations of music scholars seems to be quite demanding, even for a DC that love music. They do seem to get used to it by Yr 9.

On a positive note, the parent association is very good, my friends have enjoyed helping out. The one issue my friends mentioned a lot was parent / school communication, but they are used to it now.

Thank you both for your comments - very helpful. Cingolimama, really pleased to hear that your daughter has coped ok with the commute. That’s definitely my main concern - DD is really not a morning person, and it’s enough of a struggle (when we’re not in lockdown!) getting her out the door at 8.40 each morning for primary school - I’ve worked out she’d have to leave for Marylebone around 7.20?!
Re the sexual harassment stuff, how much of that do you think occurs at a lot of mixed schools? I went to a private girls’ secondary myself (in the days when private schools were more affordable!) so have no experience of that dynamic in mixed schools. I do remember some girls from my school transferred to an elite central London boys’ school for sixth form, and apparently on the first day the boys used to stand in the yard looking at all the girls and giving them marks out of ten 🙄 I know of people in Stokey who’ve sent their kids to The Bridge and Haggerston, but have never seen the point of sending your kids to one mixed comp that’s further away vs one that’s down the road...
Was Marylebone both your and your daughter’s 1st choice? My slight worry is that it will end up being my first choice but Stokey will be DD’s. How do you weigh up child choice vs parental choice? Particularly if your child is voting with their feet saying they don’t want a long commute each day - which does seem like a reasonable POV. I also feel I have to tread carefully because Marylebone is by no means a sure thing. If she didn’t get in and ended up at Stokey, I would want her to be happy about going there (ie not to have been scared off). Also feel I have to be careful what I say about Stokey to her because a number of her close friends (whose parents I’m friends with, like and respect) will almost certainly be going...

Hi PurpleT,

Re: sexual harassment... I don't know many other mixed schools other than Stokey, but look at the statistics from the DofE: Over a third (37%) of female students at mixed-sex schools have personally experienced some form of sexual harassment at school. Almost a third (29%) of female students at mixed-sex schools have been subjected to unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature. Etc.

St. Marylebone was our first choice. No one that DD knew was going to St. M, and actually that was a good thing. She'd had a tricky time in primary (some bullying), so had a "clean slate" and made fantastic friends from the get-go.

Personally (and I know there are some who'd disagree), I think secondary is ultimately the parents decision - with input from the child. Of course, I'd never want to send my child to somewhere they hated, but at 10/11 years old, I just don't think they are mature enough to see the bigger picture.

I know what you mean about friends parents who are all going to Stokey. Was the same for me. There was, and remains, a very laissez-faire attitude to education round here: "oh, as long as they're happy", and "oh, they'll be fine wherever they go". Interesting that a couple of those parents who were critical of me for sending DD to St. M, were a year later transferring their daughters out of Stokey!

Thanks again for all your comments Cingolimama. Those are sobering statistics about mixed sex schools... It’s making me think perhaps we should reconsider and check out Mossbourne too (despite some of the scary stories I hear) because I’m guessing they don’t stand for that sort of behaviour. No-physical-touching policy etc!

I know what you mean about the somewhat laissez-faire attitude to education in some parts of Stokey. Though it makes me wonder what happens to all these kids as they are often the children of very highly educated, high- achieving parents. Who presumably do ultimately want their kids to go to good unis (etc). Alongside the being happy of course! 😀

My daughter joined Clapton in September and has loved it so far (caveat: most of that time has now been virtual...). We move to hackney from another London borough and thought long about which schools to apply for. She passed her 11 plus and so had the option of going to the girls’ grammar school in the area we were previously in (incidentally the same school I went to). We ended up giving her the choice after a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of grammar + long commute Vs local school. She is happy at Clapton, from what I’ve seen (again limited due to lockdown) the school has a welcoming and nurturing vibe, lots of freedom for the girls to express themselves (ie not restrictions on hair colour/styles) and a huge focus on strong work ethic. She seems to be settling in very nicely and has made friends - lots of diversity as well which was important to us.

Thanks for your response fruitloops. I’m really pleased to hear your daughter is enjoying Clapton. We’ll definitely be considering it - I hear really good things about it. I think we might be on the edge of catchment though so Stokey would probably be more of a sure thing as far as local schools go...

DD is in Y11 at St Marylebone and I can't say enough good things about the pastoral care there and the attention from the teachers, which she has really needed. She's made friends, not loads and loads but certainly enough for her to be happy there and DH and I like the friends too. None of them are very local to us, which has been a shame in lockdown, but not an issue before that. Her commute is long (she sets off at 7.20) but she never moans about that. Like cingolimama, we appreciate the diversity of the pupils and we had a heavy hand in the decision-making, and am glad to say DD's experience has been even better than we thought it might be. Happy to go into more detail privately - we chose St M over independent schools and DD often says she's glad we did.

Bump!

@MarvelAnn

Our DD might have a spot at St Marylebone! Is it possible to say which independent schools your daughter got into? And why you chose St M over them?

Also, where do most of the girls live who go to St M?

You can always PM me too. :)
Many thanks in advance!

PM sent.

What is the catchment for St Marylebone?

It depends on what band your daughter tests into (there are 4 bands), and whether you have a church reference or not (and how strong your reference is, if you have one).

@MarvelAnn

What are the 4 bands? Are they certain levels of testing?

And thank you for the PM! So appreciate it. I will answer tomorrow since I’m about to pass out.

@ClaireSage

This might help you understand:

“Banding tests are used by some state schools to ensure they’re admitting pupils with a wide range of academic abilities.
Under the ‘fair banding’ system, all pupils who’d like a place at a specific school take the same test.
Their results are used to put them into an ability band, for example:
Band A (highest marks): 25% of children Band B: 25% of children
Band C: 25% of children
Band D (lowest marks): 25% of children
The school will then offer places to equal numbers of children within each band to ensure they’re admitting an even spread of academic abilities.”

This is used for admission purposes only and by other schools such as Camden School for Girls / Grey Coat Hospital / St Augustine’s...

You may want to read more about admissions here.

Will your daughter be trying for Sept 22? Church place or performing arts and music?

Either way, all applicants need to sit the banding test if you apply for the school.

Oops forgot the link click here for St Marylebone Admissions Policy

Also to avoid confusion - where I mentioned the other schools above St Marylebone / Grey Coat Hospital / St Augustines all share the same banding test results so you only need to sit once if applying to each of those and these are all C of E schools. It is about half hour long and for this year’s intake was just Verbal Reasoning.

But Camden Girl’s School is a separate and comprehensive and long banding test around 2.5hrs, specific to their school.

To further reiterate above - the banding tests for the state schools I mentioned in my last messages incl. St Marylebone are to ensure they have a mixed ability intake and only used for admission purposes not for setting or streaming.

They are not academically selective. Their admissions is based purely on each school specific order of criteria.

@ClaireSage @sausagedogststandupandtakeover "catchment" for this years allocation was:

There were 7 EHCP and 16 performing arts places and then the cut off distances for each band under church and open places was as follows:

Church of England Places (under criterion 2.1.2)
Band A up to 1.824 miles
Band B up to 3.018 miles
Band C up to 4.208 miles
Band D "All offered" (so assume they then started to offer places to the next criterion down)

Open Places (distance)
Band A 0.998 miles
Band B 0.641 miles
Band C 0.564 miles
Band D 0.614 miles

Can I ask where you got the allocation info BananaDaiquiri, so that I can look it up? The Band A church place allocation distance seems really small this year - I know several girls who live 4 ish miles from the school who were Band A and got church places in previous years. We live in Stoke Newington (approx 4 miles away) and had been naively hoping for a church place if DD didn’t get one of the v competitive performing arts scholarships (she’d very likely be in Band A). Were there loads more Band A girls applying this year?! Looks like we need to get ready to settle for Stokey...

If you really want DD to go on a church place wouldn't it be better if she wasn't a Band A student? Do band D students tend to get in from further afield generally? How about DD writes her name on the banding paper and nothing else?

@purpleturtle1

This link shows the 2020 allocations from the Westminster Council Secondary brochure:

www.westminster.gov.uk/media/document/secondary-school-admission-brochure-2021

Interesting to compare this with
excerpt for 2021 allocations which @BananaDaiquiri posted above - and would also be interested to know where they were published?

You mention your DD would very likely be Band A / is this because she is very bright and high achieving and therefore would have scored highly on her Banding test? I don’t think being Band A and falling under the church criteria gives more advantage - as competitions is high across the board and expect for a school such as St Marylebone there is a large number girls applying who are bright and fall within the higher Band and are coming from private primaries not just state.

@MumsRule20 @purpleturtle1
I got it from Rbkc who publish their own admissions allocation alongside Westminster.
www.rbkc.gov.uk/children-and-education/schools/join-school/admissions/primary-secondary-school-transfer-2021

Don't know what's going with band A compared to previous years. Oddly, at CSG band A went out the furthest, and much further than previous years. Perhaps the two are related as there may be some overlap in applicants. May just be a one off strange year. I know of someone 2.6 miles away, in band A church who didn't get in this year.

@Camdenish Haha, I like this way of thinking and might be worthwhile considering @purpleturtle1 :) steer away from a likely Band A performance on the test.

So long as you fulfil the next highest CofE church criteria with attendance for the minimum required or more as per their admissions over the preceding 3 years prior to application, then you may be fine and if it is your preferred school then definitely put it first choice as if you don’t get it, you will then get Stokey which is obvs closest to you and if you have that down as second on the LA admissions form and you can accept it on offer day. Nothing lost and if your clergy form substantiates as above, likely you will be quite high up on the waitlist for a chance of a place St Marylebone at first or second rounds.

@BananaDaiquiri thanks for this. That is odd - likely effects of Covid? Be useful to hear others thoughts around the comparison of the two years.

Encouraging a Band A child to turn in a Band D performance in order to secure a place at coveted school... sounds like the plot of a Netflix film
Agree it would be really interesting to hear thoughts on why there’s such a discrepancy between Band A distances from 2020 to 2021. DH and I have wondered what the “Covid effect” on school admissions might be. More parents falling on financial hard times and deciding to go state rather than private..?