@ Parents of Eton, Winchester, Wellington kids [about top US university destinations]

[HockeyDad]

Hello everyone,

Looking into the GSG it transpires that the above boarding schools are somewhat successful in sending children to (quasi) Ivy league universities in the US.

When reading the statistics on GSG together with the news articles on the schools' own websites, I am starting to get the impression that many (if not most) of these successful entries to top US schools were at the end on the back of sports scholarships.

Of course I am aware that the top US universities are looking for well rounded kids in general. But sports scholarships go way beyond that. Those lists are drawn up by coaches with a bare bottom SAT target and as such tend to be academics blind.

To those of you who have friends of your kids going from UK boarding schools to top US schools: do you share the same general impression that the most typical avenue from a UK boarding school to a top US university is via the sports scholarship route?

When I say top US universities, I mean the very top like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Georgetown, Yale etc.

Many thanks,
HockeyDad

The Ivy League schools do not offer athletic scholarships. These comprise Brown, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, and William & Mary.
Buy a college guide-Princeton Review offers an excellent one. What does DC want to study? Where in theStates would DC like to live?
In the States, only girls play field hockey. Mostly boys play ice hockey here, though there are women’s teams at some American schools.
PM me if you want to talk. I’m just an over educated American.

@HockeyDad if you're interested in US universities for your child, I suggest you head over to the Fulbright Commission website, which has most of what you need to know: www.fulbright.org.uk/going-to-the-usa/undergraduate

They will set you straight on the idea that 'Ivy League' unis are necessarily "top" unis - they are old, and they compete with each other in the same sports League (the Ivy League) but they're not necessarily more academic than some other US universities.

The previous poster is correct that they don't generally offer sports scholarships, apart from in some key sports where they feel they have a skills deficit to fill, e.g. Harvard has rowing scholarships - I know of some girls here in the UK who have been actively headhunted for those.

They do have needs-based scholarships which can be very generous for families on low or average income. Otherwise, places are on offer to those who can pay the very high fees and impress the admissions tutors with their academic credentials and all-round abilities.

If many children from the schools you mention go to Ivy League universities it is likely to be because their families are wealthy enough to afford the fees and living costs, rather than because they are getting scholarships.

First, men play field hockey in the States but it is not an NCAA sport and William and Mary is not an Ivy.
www.ncsasports.org/field-hockey/scholarships
www.varsityedge.com/ivy-league-recruiting/#.YBawkFOnw0M

For the Ivy League and most other top US unis, you need top grades plus lots of high grade extra curriculars (which can include sports). If you want to be a recruited athlete (which may just help with getting in without financial benefit, and this will certainly be the case with the Ivies where financial aid is purely income based) it has to be in a sport they recruit for, and generally you would need to be national level if coming from the UK. Do you mean ice hockey, btw, which is what Americans mean by hockey? There will be far fewer scholarships for real (field) hockey for boys. (Figures are skewed by the vast number of American football scholarships having to be balanced by sports scholarships for girls in other sports.)

College Confidential is a good place to get a feel for US university admissions.

HockeyDad,

At Eton, over the last few years about half of the boys are recruited for rowing during Early Decision Round; the rest are accepted during Regular Decision based on academics and extra-curricular. Last year one girl from Wellington was recruited by Duke for women's field hockey (there you go); she played on the England Junior Team. One SPGS girl was recruited last year by Stanford for fencing, right before they shut the program down last summer due to financials. All these sport recruits are not on any monetary scholarship.

But I also know many UK kids going to Ivies through academic route.

Many thanks for all the helpful responses. Makes sense, this was also my impression. Grateful for all your help!

Bit late to this thread but yep, I have a DS at one of these schools & it’s all about the sports scholarships & carefully managed pathways. Parents (especially US ones - just because they understand the system better) & kids are choosing a sport super early which they know is most likely to win a US sports scholarship. They can afford the US fees so it’s not about money, just giving their child way more chance of getting in. I’m also seeing county/regional level teens ditch their sport for a new one because it’s more viable for sports scholarship. A huge catalyst for private school parents came 10-15 years ago when they realised oxbridge was probably off limits. They switched their focus to US Ivy leagues & upped their game (academic + national level ‘something’: sport, music, etc).

Unsure why people think Ivy will not give sport scholarships. Might be rare but it happens.

I know someone who got a full ride to Yale as a rowing cox in the past few years.

Are you sure you're not confusing scholarships with Financial Aid @DilettanteMum? DS has a place at an Ivy for this coming year as an athlete and there are definitely no athletic scholarships available.

I am not clear on how his package broke down. I assume a combo of scholarships and financial aid grants. No loans though. He got a full ride, as stated. He was not from a rich family but certainly had enough money to not qualify for total grants without the sport being there.

At the the did the day calling financial
Coverage "scholarship" or "grant" is a bit semantics.

If they want your kid to fill a needed place in the sports programme, they will make it happen.

I didn't go to an Ivy (Boston Uni) but I got major grants and only graduated with 30k in loans. Expensive private school have the cash to splash if they want you.

I disagree @DilettanteMum - the two are quite different things. I see the same on private school threads where posters repeatedly mix up bursaries and scholarships.

Yep, the parents I know who are helping to steer their kids towards Ivy leagues sports scholarships it’s just to help them get ‘in’ (nothing to do with $$)

A lucky break probably: that Ivy in that year probably had noone else with rowing cox experience (or might have lost one unexpectedly) within the acceptable academic range, and rowing is likely a major PR sport for them.

That’s a fluke though, as the uni is immediately in a much stronger position if there are already two candidates with an acceptable profile. Especially if one of them can pay at least some of the fees, and if that sport is not on that year’s PR bragging list.

The problem is that the Ivy’s are however on everyone’s list. People win the lottery too, after all… but in this case the sacrifice (or alternative cost) is much greater with no obvious financial benefit.

To clear up the common confusion on this subject...

The eight Ivy League schools cannot offer any merit-based aid, including sports scholarships. Athletic recruits are also required to meet general admission standards, and this is externally monitored. These are agreements the schools have all made as part of their membership in the Ivy League athletic conference, not individual school policies. It's been this way for generations and there are no individual exceptions. Ivy League athletes CAN receive some non-school based scholarships. How available those are depends on the sport & athlete profile.

That said, the Ivy Leagues have astonishingly large endowments that allow them to offer extremely generous need-based aid packages. Middle class families are often eligible for significant aid packages that other universities could not provide & there can be some wiggle room in these offers for high priority admits. Sports is also an important recruiting factor because these schools receive far more applicants with "elite" academic credentials than they can possibly admit, so their admissions decisions treat (near) perfect grades & test scores as a prerequisite, not what will get you in. The question is always what applicants offer beyond those peak academics, and sports are often high on that list.

Interestingly, there's a slim possibility the no scholarships rule might change: yaledailynews.com/blog/2022/12/08/following-antitrust-expiration-merit-and-athletic-scholarships-become-an-option-for-the-ivy-league/

Great and much needed clarification there, @AGoingConcern.

There are approximately 66 (iirc) schools offering to meet 100% of an accepted American applicant's demonstrated financial need. This number includes the Ivies and such colleges and universities as the University of Chicago, Swarthmore, and more. Acceptance is need blind - they accept you first and look at your financial aid application afterwards (FAFSA and CSS Profile for private schools, just FAFSA for state schools). Enormous endowments make generous financial aid possible.

Financial aid is not a scholarship. It's a cost of attendance waiver, either full or partial. Scholarships have to be applied for separately, are based on all sprts of criteria ('girls from large families who are studying architecture are strongly encouraged to apply' for instance) and financial aid is often reduced by the amount of any scholarship awarded.

For foreign applicants wishing to be considered for financial aid (which is based on need) the number of appropriate schools is much lower.

American parents who wish to produce a well rounded applicant to one of these extremely selective schools strongly encourage their kids to do sports, music, art, drama, debate team, volunteering, participation as leaders in groups, mentoring, PT jobs all through middle and high school, on top of getting an excellent GPA and having a transcript that includes as many AP classes as they can pack in in required subjects - four years of math, science, MFL, English, humanities.... There's also a packet of essays and reflections each applicant has to offer.

The parents know the chances of their child getting a NCAA scholarship are slim to none, but a student who is clearly a go getter and all rounder academically will have a chance of admission and admission means some financial aid for students from families making under $150k iirc.

Thanks to both @mathanxiety and @AGoingConcern for explaining the finance on offer so clearly. These 'myths' do need to be corrected.

I'd also say that in the case of the sport DS takes part in there is no way you'd get to the level he has (national representation) without it being driven by the child. The idea that parents could engineer it is just doesn't ring true.