GCSE options- humanities...

[Hmmph]

My son is trying to chose his options.
So far he has
Maths, Eng Lang and Lit and Triple Science
French
Computer Science
Religious Studies

And he is stuck on whether to do History or Business as his final choice.

He is fairly academic and does well in all subjects, although he prefers maths and science.

In my head, it is traditional and better to do History as I feel you should do History or geography so you have a humanities subject. I also know this is compulsory to get an EBacc.

But he is wavering as business sounds interesting and he already has an essay subject in religious studies.

What does the wisdom of Mumsnet think?

Does he think the History syllabus sounds interesting? History is one of those subjects which I think is so different depending what you're studying.

History is the more academic option.
Hard to do History A Level without doing GCSE. Business A Level (and degree) will still be open to him without GCSE (or A Level).

Ebacc is for the school. It isn’t something the student themselves get. But that said, it isn’t a bad thing to aim for as it includes well regarded subjects and ensures a good balance.

What about doing geography instead, if he is stronger in sciences?

This is just a personal opinion, but I am not a fan of subjects such as “business” at GCSE level...

He doesn’t really like Geography!

He does think the History syllabus sounds interesting, he just thinks Business sounds more interesting and relevant. Which, to be fair, it does.

Do you think Religious Studies will add enough balance without History?

Tbh I think he should do History, as I feel it’s a “better” subject. But that sounds a bit silly!

He thinks Business because it’s more relevant to life- which is true- but I think it might be seen as a lesser subject.

Logically children should be studying more subjects like psychology, Business, finance as they are much more relevant to life and careers.

If he’s an able student, the school should be directing him towards the academic subjects. That’s what would happen in a selective school.

You are right that people need to study business, psychology etc.... yet the time to study them isn’t GCSE. GCSE is for a broad based curriculum which keeps doors open. Even A Level isn’t the best time to study the subjects you mention, for an able child. People go onto business degrees, psychology etc without having GCSEs or A Levels in them.

The GCSE profile which is regarded most highly is a decent number of subjects (8 is fine) with the majority being standard academic subjects at high grades.

Remember, you can’t do History A Level without the GCSE. You can do business. You won’t do a History degree without A Level. You can do business.

When choosing GCSEs lots of children are attracted to new exciting real world subjects that look more exciting than the subjects they already know. They tend to be taken by the less able students who have struggled in the standard subjects (not in all cases of course) and are less well regarded for academic rigour. Look at if your nearest independent or grammar school offers them...probably not. Most won’t offer business at GCSE and only some offer at A Level, but offer Economics instead.

Get your son to have a discussion with the careers advisor at school about which options will keep most doors open and give him a better profile. He needs to hear the reality of the situation and so do you.

It is exactly this kind of thing that lots of Comps are getting critisicised for. They are not directing their able students towards the courses which keep the doors open to the more academic options at the next stages.

Business is a fine GCSE for some students. Obviously GCSE is very basic level and having a GCSE in business isn’t going to turn you into a business person.

Having said all this, I would also say that for an academic student, having 1 GCSE in their profile which is something they chose for interest and which isn’t academic is absolutely fine, as long as the rest of their profile shows them as academic.

So if he has a good academic profile (perhaps 3 sciences, a language, he has RS) then having one subject that really appeals to him (maybe business) is fine. But recognise its worth choosing for that reason rather than its a good subject to study because we need more people with business and that it isn’t a subject at GCSE that ‘leads somewhere’.

Think to the next stage. From his GCSE choices, which A Levels will be open to him and which won’t? Which A Levels might he be likely to do? If he has any idea about degree, are there any requirements or subjects that would be required or good to have.

Hard to think of all this when teens rarely know what they want to do next I know. But essentially I think you both need to understand about keeping doors open and closing them and which subjects help with this.

I would agree that Business doesn't 'lead somewhere'. Don't choose it expecting it to. New subjects can seem more attractive on the page as students don't have negative associations with them. The ability profile for BS at our school is weaker than for History (and much more boy heavy). However, I think the balance of his subjects is fine and he should take whatever he is interested in. (Nothing creative?)

Thank you very much for all your very informative answers, especially @WombatChocolate! You will be surprised to hear that he is at a selective private school!

We are suffering at the moment from having to chose in lockdown without the full ability to discuss it face to face.

I think it boils down to - do History and have everything kept open to you or do Business which you might enjoy more (and find easier) but which might mean some doors are closed to you in future.

Thanks again all!

Yes, your summing up is pretty accurate.

I have to say I’m surprised a selective school offers Business GCSE. Even Economics GCSE is very unusual these days.
Do they offer a range of less traditional subjects at GCSE? Is it selective in the sense there is an exam, but actually almost everyone gets an offer? Lots of independent schools, especially outside the south East simply don’t have the applicant numbers to be truly selective and just give the impression of it with an exam.

But his GCSE choices overall are a good range of subjects and look good so 1 subject because it really appeals to him would be fine, as long as you realise that’s what it is and not that it’s leading somewhere. Business at school level (both GCSE and A Level) tends to attract the less able (not always of course) and so the profile in the class is likely to be different as a PP mentioned. That in itself doesn’t have to be a problem.

Back in the day I insisted in doing GCSE Typing. It didn’t fit with my other academic subjects but I was desperate to do it. Most of the others in the class were preparing for office work and struggled in the more academic subjects. It was my favourite course and I loved it, although I knew I wouldn’t be taking it further. Actually it allowed me to get temp work at 16 and 18 and to type my essays fast at Uni. So doing 1 subject because it really appeals to you is fine at GCSE....you have enough to absorb it and it not to ruin an academic profile...and the whole point is a broad range of study at that point.

I would suggest history GCSE and then considering business or economics at A level if he is still interested.

You don't need history GCSE to do A level though - at least in many sixth forms you don't.

I did RE A level without having had done it for GCSE.

The only door that not taking history will close is taking History A Level, I would have thought? (and even that is sixth form dependent).

He's got 9 solidly academic choices already; he should really just take the one he prefers.

Yes I agree, not choosing history doesn't close doors. You can do history A level without the GCSE. It's unusual bc a history buff would most likely do GCSE anyway, but not impossible - if, for example, you disliked the modules offered for GCSE but loved the A level ones.

Honestly, I don't think a subject like business will affect his academic GCSE profile. A very smart pal of Ds2's did it for GCSE and has an offer to study maths at Cambridge. If you are targeting the most selective unis, GCSE grades are more important than subjects. If he would get a 9 in business and a 6 in history then business may be a better choice (though not necessarily!).

Yes don't be distracted by the Ebacc, it's not something a student "gets", just a measure schools are judged by. A good range of GCSEs is a good idea, but he has that with MFL, RE and CS plus the compulsories.

I was pushed to do history instead of art as it was more academic. I hated it, and got a bad grade as a result. No-one will ever ask him about his GCSEs, and if he's not likely to do history at A Level, what's the point?

My biggest regret in life is studying what I was pushed towards rather than what I really wanted to do.

I think also consider the teachers (if he knows them/can find out about them). Ds is in year doing RS, Business and History! I think all are interesting and valid subjects. Unfortunately his Business teacher is uninspiring, whereas the other two are really good - amongst the best teachers he’s had. That makes a much bigger difference to their experience, and probably results, than anything else.

Otherwise I wouldn’t worry too much about right/wrong subjects. Some schools will actually allow you to take history A Level without the GCSE. But if he’s not massively interested in it now, why would he suddenly want to do it anyway?

My dd did RS instead of history. Her school (private) classes it as a humanity and couldn't care less about ebacc. A different 6th form were quite happy to take her for A level history or Politics with just RS, but in the end she chose to stay where she was and did A level RS.

Ds did Business Studies, it was quit mathsy in places and appealed to his logical side.

He should do whichever he thinks he will enjoy the most and get the best grade in .

I think he should do whichever he wants to do.
He has a perfectly fine set of very academic GCSEs already.
The final one doesn't need to be for show.

Interesting that Ops son is at independent school and she mentions ebacc.
Most independents don’t bother with it at all/report figures for it.

Yes, get a broad and balanced curriculum. His choices will do that. I agree that RS is fine as a humanity.

Business shouldn’t be chosen as a route to other study (simply not needed) but as the final option choice, chosen for genuine interest, fine.

And it’s true that when unis and workplaces look, they will see the number of GCSEs and their grades.

Perhaps look at the historic outcomes of the History and Business Dept for GCSE in this school. It shouldn’t be the sole driver, but if for example Business tends to get all poor results, I might think again. There can be big discerepancies between department results in some schools.

History is A LOT of work - reading, making notes, essays. Business seems to be easier.

What is he more keen on?

Has be looked at the topics his school covers for both?

Just do whatever he prefers.

Might seem like a major decision now but in the grand scheme of things it will mean very little.

So you might as well have a child who is happy with their choices instead of finding history hard/onerous and then hating it.

Less essay writing in one subject might free up time to excel more at others, you just never know.

Gosh let him do what he’s most interested in. I can’t say any future employer will care if he does History or Business GCSE.

I would ask him what he wants to do at A levels and see if this will affect his choices. He can do business at A level without a GCSE - but if he isn't fussed about doing history at A level and he thinks business looks more interesting than I would let him go for that as its an easier GCSE and he can concentrate on what he wants to do for A levels.

I would say his GCSEs are not particularly balanced. RE is the easier humanity and there is no arts subject. It’s very stem based. I’m surprised he doesn’t like Geography because it’s more allied to sciences and with his GCSEs. He’s obviously not a humanities/art dc which looks narrow to my old fashioned eyes. DDs having been to selective independent schools. Your school presumably is after league table position.

My DD2 did business studies A level without the gcse. The better mathematicians did economics. Again without the gcse. BS tends to be the less academic poor relation. So look at who else is doing it and whether they are the brightest dc. Possibly not and possibly that won’t matter, but it might. What are results like and is the teacher any good?