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Secondary education

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Teams Meeting

71 replies

House1999 · 27/01/2021 20:33

My DS school do remote learning via Microsoft teams. There is one particular teacher that will not admit children to the meeting room if they are late. My DS (year 10)was 10 minutes late today due to a WiFi issue at home. Instead of missing 10 minutes of the lesson he missed the whole lesson, 60 minutes. Every time he sent in a request to join the teacher denied it. I feel disappointed that the teacher is not more supportive due to the current situation. There has been so much lost learning that i find it difficult to understand why the teacher wouldn’t accept the request to join.

OP posts:
Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 13:09

[quote Murmurur]@Rowenasemolina "How is it worse if they are typing in chat? Because chat is part of the lesson and..."

Ok sure, I was not making myself clear. Why can't you use/adapt your normal classroom management methods to stop them "shouting out" in the chat? That's what my children's teachers do. I'm not suggesting that you tolerate it, I'm asking why it's so hard to manage compared with every other behaviour you don't tolerate in the classroom. My kids are a little younger (Y7 and Y9) so maybe that's what I'm missing, but I thought Y9 was one of the trickier years in terms of behaviour.

Children and adults alike can have WiFi problems - we would have no zoom quizzer friends left if we banned them from a quiz every time they dropped a WiFi connection or their computer decided to install the mother of all updates or ran out of battery at an awkward time. These things happen to adults as well as children especially when the kids have been using the computer all day and forgotten to plug the extension lead into the wall[/quote]
I do. Not sure what your question is. Why don’t we control our classes? We do. And part of that control, at times, is not letting latecomers in Which is where we started!

Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 13:15

I have been speaking to IT this morning about turning the lobby off for part of the lesson. Strongly vetoed. I’m told if you don’t control people hen they enter, you cannot control impose control later, and there are ways someone who entered without the lobby can re enter later, and invite others. Apparently there is a huge black market for the details and pass codes for such lessons, meaning children can be contacted in their own room at night by someone they believe is a classmate Shock I don’t know which account is right, yes it’s safe, or no it’s dangerous. Maybe it depends on set up, or system, or maybe it was an old loophole that’s been closed. Anyway. I can’t do it, it’s banned by my school

Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 13:16

I think the OP and her don are just going to have to accept that there is no possible way to be fair to everyone all the time, no matter how hard we try

lljkk · 28/01/2021 14:23

I am struggling to believe that it is 'hot blackmarket material' for 16-18yr olds to share telecon links to their A-level lessons. Sounds like the most naff thing possible. Or maybe I just have teenagers in my life who would circle like sharks on a stranger in their midst. Links to Jennifer Lawrence's private webcam broadcast might be another matter...

Surely someone can be banned from the lessons if they do stuff like invite random weirdos in.

Chat gets monitored selectively & only at specific points in my work meetings, not constantly; chat is good in large meetings for the non-presenters to swap work info just like we would in a real life large meeting.

16-18 yrs old is old enough to nominate one of the participants to monitor the chat for unique unresolved questions; teenagers like rising to positions of responsibility (or power/bossiness if you like). Equally could nominate a keen early arrival to monitor who else is present if A-level Business is such an exciting link to have on the 'black market'

Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 15:24

@lljkk

I am struggling to believe that it is 'hot blackmarket material' for 16-18yr olds to share telecon links to their A-level lessons. Sounds like the most naff thing possible. Or maybe I just have teenagers in my life who would circle like sharks on a stranger in their midst. Links to Jennifer Lawrence's private webcam broadcast might be another matter...

Surely someone can be banned from the lessons if they do stuff like invite random weirdos in.

Chat gets monitored selectively & only at specific points in my work meetings, not constantly; chat is good in large meetings for the non-presenters to swap work info just like we would in a real life large meeting.

16-18 yrs old is old enough to nominate one of the participants to monitor the chat for unique unresolved questions; teenagers like rising to positions of responsibility (or power/bossiness if you like). Equally could nominate a keen early arrival to monitor who else is present if A-level Business is such an exciting link to have on the 'black market'

You are missing the point. An interloper can reactivate a lesson at 11pm, and send an invite to an individual 13 year old (or 11 year old, or younger) alone in their room, under the guise of being a classmate wanting help with homework
Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 15:24

They would appear under the classmates name and avatar

Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 15:27

That’s if you don’t use the lobby system. Supposedly. I know it has happened, like I said, we had a convicted drug dealer attempt recruitment in this manner last lockdown. It certainly is possible. The question is, can it still happen if you switch the lobby back on at the end of the lesson. That is the question, not are School classes teams details for sale on the black market, because they are

MrsHerculePoirot · 28/01/2021 15:39

Blimey this thread has gone a bit crazy!
OP I just let them in whenever they turn up. I keep record of lateness. I don’t got back and start again. Lots have wifi issues/tech problems as many of our students are disadvantaged. So sometimes they have to jump in and out. Takes approx 2 secs to click on admit.

You can deny from the lobby by clicking on the x instead of the tick or you can leave them just in there. Sounds like the teacher was clicking to deny them.

If your lessons have intruders your organisation probably needs to change the settings so only those in your organisation can join meetings. That solved our problems there when we had that.

Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 15:47

@MrsHerculePoirot

Blimey this thread has gone a bit crazy! OP I just let them in whenever they turn up. I keep record of lateness. I don’t got back and start again. Lots have wifi issues/tech problems as many of our students are disadvantaged. So sometimes they have to jump in and out. Takes approx 2 secs to click on admit.

You can deny from the lobby by clicking on the x instead of the tick or you can leave them just in there. Sounds like the teacher was clicking to deny them.

If your lessons have intruders your organisation probably needs to change the settings so only those in your organisation can join meetings. That solved our problems there when we had that.

Lessons don’t have intruders. Well mostly not. No one actually knows if the names that appear in the list are actually those people. Occasionally we catch one who isn’t who they say they are. There are probably more who get away with it.

Again, I’m trying to explain that intruders in a lesson are not really an issue. Intruders reactivating a closed lesson are an issue. And it’s possible with any lesson that hasn’t used a lobby

MrsHerculePoirot · 28/01/2021 16:06

@Rowenasemolina totally agree about use of lobby. We insist on this being on at all times.

However since changing our settings we haven’t had any problems with anyone pretending to be anyone else if that is helpful - made massive difference to us. If someone does get in by using another name but isn’t in your organisation when you hover over their name in the participants list if will show their email address. If it just shows their name they should be who they say they are as part of your org. Obvs if someone has got some else’s password for hat is different but that can be easily fixed by changing password as necessary I think.

lljkk · 28/01/2021 16:59

An interloper can reactivate a lesson at 11pm, and send an invite to an individual 13 year old (or 11 year old, or younger) alone in their room, under the guise of being a classmate wanting help with homework

So that's 11yrs old or 13yr olds. Meanwhile, OP is talking about age 16-18.

Even for 11-13 yrs old, under that scenario, the interloper needs to

know the @ name of the person they want to target

who won't grass them up quickly, so they need to choose the right target early to not be detected

target has to want to interact with the sender (who may not be anyone they want to ever interact with, how would interloper know who target usually interacts with )

target maybe needs to happen to "be alone" the target time

target has to think it's normal to use TEAMS not usual modes of interaction with impostered person

target has to think it's fine to interact at the time proposed

target has to be available then, not busy doing other things

target has to see the invitation in time to make the proposed illicit meeting

target has to think they want to 'help' interloper with that specific homework, that target ever helps anyone

target has to think it's reasonable to be asked to help the person that interloper is impersonating

Target has to not realise they are talking to imposter, who could be easily revealed depending on the true relationship between target and the genuine account holder

or target has to naively go along with suggestions by the imposter and potential exploitation at this point, and not grass them up to an adult

There are a lot of hurdles for our would-be interloper.  Approaching random kid on the street would be a more successful strategy.
Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 17:44

@lljkk

An interloper can reactivate a lesson at 11pm, and send an invite to an individual 13 year old (or 11 year old, or younger) alone in their room, under the guise of being a classmate wanting help with homework

So that's 11yrs old or 13yr olds. Meanwhile, OP is talking about age 16-18.

Even for 11-13 yrs old, under that scenario, the interloper needs to

know the @ name of the person they want to target

who won't grass them up quickly, so they need to choose the right target early to not be detected

target has to want to interact with the sender (who may not be anyone they want to ever interact with, how would interloper know who target usually interacts with )

target maybe needs to happen to "be alone" the target time

target has to think it's normal to use TEAMS not usual modes of interaction with impostered person

target has to think it's fine to interact at the time proposed

target has to be available then, not busy doing other things

target has to see the invitation in time to make the proposed illicit meeting

target has to think they want to 'help' interloper with that specific homework, that target ever helps anyone

target has to think it's reasonable to be asked to help the person that interloper is impersonating

Target has to not realise they are talking to imposter, who could be easily revealed depending on the true relationship between target and the genuine account holder

or target has to naively go along with suggestions by the imposter and potential exploitation at this point, and not grass them up to an adult

There are a lot of hurdles for our would-be interloper.  Approaching random kid on the street would be a more successful strategy.</div></div>
Don’t know where to start with this really. 

<ol><li>Needs to know name. You can see the names of all co tributes when you reactivate meeting
</li></ol>

<ol><li> Needs to choose target who thinks this is a normal way to interact on Teams. Um. It is? That’s what happens if there is no lobby. Students reactivate lessons and get together on them. I’m sure your kids have done/ tried the same
</li></ol>

3.Interloper needs to know things about target, maybe they do? All previous interactions are visible. And interloper might know target in real life anyway, ie younger  cousins classmate, etc which is what we had trouble with

4.Target needs to be alone? Not necessarily. There could be multiple targets, and the ones who are alone homed in on

<ol><li>Target needs to see invitation, no, it rings 
</li></ol>

<ol><li>Target need to not be busy, well at 11 pm they probably aren’t
</li></ol>

<ol><li> 16-18 year olds are less vulnerable. No not really. In our local sixth form college there was an interloper who hooked in quite a few students, advertising paid Part time apprenticeships   In a Accountancy. Earn high bucks evenings and weekends, come out with a qualification in 6 months, berg up your UCAS application, and cv etc.   Interloper was south out by excited teens wanting to have something great to show for their lockdown.  Of course it was money laundering, and worse than criminal records, they hit themselves entangled with one of the most vicious gangs in my part of London. One of my ex students was involved. Clever boy. He hadn’t had to leave the area, but one of his A level friends Has, along with his whole whole family. 
</li></ol>


If I t know why we are arguing about this. No one disputes teams without a lobby is a huge safeguarding concern. Most children will have entered a reactivated lesson last lock gown, at some point or other. There isn’t any question about their danger. The discussion was entirely about whether it is safe or dangerous to turn off the lobby temporarily, then turn it back on. There is a poster who thinks it’s fine. They might be right. But my school is not irritated to take the risk
Rowenasemolina · 28/01/2021 17:49

They are basically unsupervised chat rooms with access to identities and contact details of around 30 children, and criminals are prepared to pay children to hand over their, or their classmates, identity and log in, to have access to them

Soontobe60 · 28/01/2021 17:52

@PartoftheProbl3m

Lol. I’ve been teaching for 29 years.
And how many years have you been using Teams? Ive been teaching for 31 years, haven’t got a bloody clue with Teams!!
mumsneedwine · 28/01/2021 18:32

Could he not join on his phone using 3G ? At least until the wifi sorted itself out. Maybe try and join lessons a bit early, just in case.

Malbecfan · 28/01/2021 20:27

I've been using Teams for over a year in school. Ours is configured so there is no lobby. Only people in the lesson/class Team can join in any meeting/lesson. The kids are unable to do anything other than submit work and use the Chat function, and Chat is monitored.

The school is in a rural area. We have lots of issues with crap wifi. Mostly a kid will message another kid who puts up their hand and then says "Mrs Fan, X has left the lesson due to Y. They are rebooting and will be back in a minute." That's fine. It's no big deal.

As for some of the other stuff on this thread, wow! Who set up your system?

inquietant · 28/01/2021 21:20

@Rowenasemolina

They are basically unsupervised chat rooms with access to identities and contact details of around 30 children, and criminals are prepared to pay children to hand over their, or their classmates, identity and log in, to have access to them
This post is really concerning to read!
lljkk · 28/01/2021 21:55

oh, if we're gonna pick thru

1. Needs to know name. You can see the names of all co tributes when you reactivate meeting

I hope tribute was a typo

this is a normal way to interact on Teams.

The scenario is impersonation, right? So my kid thinks "Wow Kieran is talking to me! Kieran never talked to me before. And I hate his guts. Why is he talking to me?" /or/ "my mate Felix is talking to me! Why is he wanting to talk on Teams when we always Whatsapp? I'll whatsapp him now"

Students reactivate lessons and get together on them. I’m sure your kids have done/ tried the same

Never, I promise. They whatsapp. Or snapchat. Or instagram. They do not use TEAMS or google classroom for any direct contact with other kids. Adults set those places up, my kids don't expect to ever be there otherwise.

interloper might know target in real life anyway, ie younger cousins classmate, etc which is what we had trouble with

which is I guess why they targetted, because they were already stalking.

4.Target needs to be alone? Not necessarily. There could be multiple targets, and the ones who are alone homed in on
I guess that's assuming prior knowledge of the kids lives, who doesn't share a room or answers their phone.

  1. Target needs to see invitation, no, it rings
DC ignore their phones a lot -- I should know, they never answer my phone calls! Getting a text back is unusual, too.

Target need to not be busy, well at 11 pm they probably aren’t
in bed?

7. In our local sixth form college there was an interloper who hooked in quite a few students, advertising paid Part time apprenticeships

So first impersonated to get in call, but then delurked themselves to say they were an adult that offered apprenticeships - or did they pretend to be a fellow student who could offer apprenticeships. I guess I'm not following.

We get messages when DS is absent then I chivvy him to go late onto the lesson. Such fun. Maybe it would be easier if the 6th form was more hard-nosed & made it clear they'd rather he dropped out rather than be late. Then we could both hunt for those elusive apprenticeships.

House1999 · 29/01/2021 04:19

Update
Thank you for everyone’s replies. I emailed teacher and copied in headteacher. The teacher’s reply was.

^I'm afraid I have had to start refusing late admissions. As I now know that ?? has technical issues I will be more lenient with him in the future^.

Although it must be frustrating for teachers, I feel it is counterproductive to not admit late comers to the meeting at all, as the child misses out on so much more education.

OP posts:
XelaM · 29/01/2021 06:24

It’s totally insane and horrible that the teacher did this. And for all the teachers on this thread who claim it is allegedly so much work to click “admit” on Microsoft Teams ( Hmm )... I use Microsoft Teams for work meetings daily and I also teach on video at university level and it literally is just clicking ONE button saying “admit” that automatically appears regardless of what screen you are on. There is NO extra work involved and even the most professional of us suffer connection problems on a regular basis. It is utterly horrible and simply not justifiable for a teacher to simply refuse to click “admit” if a student is late or gets disconnected. It’s just mean and quite bonkers. Would you refuse entry to a student if he arrived late at school?

GrammarTeacher · 29/01/2021 06:54

It is not the admitting that is a drag and disruptive. It's the going back over instructions and teaching that you've already done. I get round that by recording all my lessons. Our area is particularly bad for good WiFi and several of my students have 5 or more people at home all trying to use it at the same time. There isn't enough bandwidth. People will get booted out every now and then. I let them in because I know this is an issue but I might on occasion ask them to wait until everyone else is doing the
independent work before going over the instructions again.

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