My daughter's a level teacher just threatened

[LNSL]

not to even enter her for her a level exam. Seems a little harsh no? She's in the lower sixth. Got an E on a recent test, which I thought was decent enough.

What do you think to this?

Why are people being so unkind
E isn't great but it might be a great sense of achievement for the student

I teach Chemistry at A-level. An E is a valid grade in Chem and will get you into uni but in easier A-levels (before anyone asks, yes there are objective ways of comparing difficulty- it is far from equal) an E would not be much use.

Still if a kid were getting Es in Chem their entry into AS exams would be questionable. In other years I'd have moved them to a more appropriate course if it wasn't fixed quickly so they don't waste a year. This year I'm having to allow more time and try intervention.

The teacher is not threatening, they are trying to help because there is limited time to address the problem.

An E isn’t worth having. I think it’d be better to drop the subject than have that on your future CV.

To clarify: the reason it's such a worry is that a child getting Es now is very unlikely to pass.

@donquixotedelamancha

To clarify: the reason it's such a worry is that a child getting Es now is very unlikely to pass.

An E is a pass.

Are you private don? Most schools don't automatically do AS. We only enter students at risk of failing full A level, like the OPs DD.

I really don't think an E in any subject will get a university offer.

Roses if a student is getting Es in year 12 content they may well not pass.

@titchy

To be fair your BCC would be equivalent to ABB these days - grades have increased a lot!

I agree with this. I also got BCC and at the time that was considered good. Times have changed. However I do think it should be your DDs choice and not the school, although they can advise.

Is your daughter getting an E because she finds the course challenging or because she isn’t doing the work?

There is a big difference.

i thought it was common knowledge everybody did a bit shit in their first term of a levels. i certainly did and came out with great marks by the end of it.

My school is proud of our results from A* to Es as we let all students sit the exams and it is a huge shame that some schools /sixth forms aren’t.

The OPs daughter has had her education disrupted as schools were closed at the end of last year. Some students have been more affected by this than others.

First couple of tests at A level we expect low results as everyone gets used to the new rigour in the questions. Then by now they should be going up. So it is a concern that it isn’t.

Without being there we can’t say if it was advise or a kick up the backside or unpleasantly meant. If daughter was upset her recollection of the conversation will be coloured by that so might not be a true reflection.

If she does like the subject and wants to continue you need to come up with an improvement plan.

To be fair your BCC would be equivalent to ABB these days - grades have increased a lot!

Absolutely agree with this. When I did mine in 1991 hardly anyone got an A. It was really impressive if you got an A in your subject.
There was no A*. Oxbridge was 2As and a B. Ds and Es were still very much seen as a pass but got you into the old polytechnics with ease really when you applied through PCAS (It was UCCA for traditional universities with more academic course and higher grades were demanded for these). You could get on a primary Ed course with Ds and Es. They were definitely worth FAR more than what they are now.

They seem to hand out A*s, As and Bs at A-level willy nilly now, and the papers themselves seem far less demanding. (I recently found my old A-level maths paper and compared it to a recent one. There was no comparison really). I did French A-level, and you had to study a few French plays and novels including Moliere etc, and read one of your own choice to talk about at your oral exam. That's been done away with.

In short, A-levels are a lot less rigorous these days. Back in the 80s and 90s an E would have been ok. It seems from multiple comments on here that people view an E achieved THESE days as hardy worth having.

It might be worth listening to those comments, OP, if you are recalling the grade E of old and thinking of it as "decent".

That said, it's been a difficult year so I don't think you can predict too much very accurately just now.

@Piggywaspushed

Roses if a student is getting Es in year 12 content they may well not pass.

pretty poor teaching if you can't raise an E in 18 months of teaching and actually end up with a child getting a lower mark though - plenty of kids get E's in Jan on the first year and higher at the end of year 13!

I’d try and consider the teachers experience on this OP. Have they been in post for long? If they have, they will know statistically where students roughly ought to be at by this point. Maybe your DD is struggling with this subject ???

An E in year 12 does not mean they will improve in yr 13. Indeed for many subjects the yr12 content is the easiest content and it is therefore more likely that the grade will decrease over the course of y13 unless the reason for the E is that she is simply not working.

My guess is that the teacher has threatened not to enter her as a kick up the bum at this stage - the stick rather than a carrot

Only the DD will know whether or not this is the case. However OP an E is not a decent grade and you are doing DD a disservice if you tell her it is.

What are her other grades? Might she be better off repeating her y12 or even looking for some other course/apprenticeship instead?

My dd is in her first year of A level and there are several in the year above that are repeating the first year. I think if she’s not going to get a good enough grade to get into uni then maybe she needs to consider repeating the year or looking at other options?

Maybe being told this will give her the kick she needs or maybe A levels are not for her?

I teach sixth form in a deprived area. Anything which isn't a U is "gradable" and therefore of value to the student. Obviously Es and Ds are less preferable than Cs or above but we have a cohort of vastly ranging ability. For some, a D is the highest they'll get, but that doesn't mean they should be discouraged from doing it.

However I have had to have the E discussion with some year 12s this last week due to end of unit assessments and it's a "kick up the arse" talk as I know full well by now who is able but lazy and who is weak but makes an effort.

Even for weaker students I would however never settle for E as an acceptable target or achievement. If E really is the peak of all knowledge and effort, then A-Levels are not for that student. A target of a C with a working at grade of D is perhaps more realistic and will provide motivation.

This is a private school.
My daughter has had some anxiety this year and has missed some time at school. She is having counselling for this.
The teacher said this to me, not to DD. She has give her 2 weeks to improve. If needs be I can get a tutor to help. I was just shocked that this is the ultimatum this early in the course.
Lots of my friends from school got Ds and Es - maybe I'm out of touch as to how bad an E is these days. Her actual mark in the test was just below 50%.

Apologies, I think I could be mistaken about the literature component of A-level languages. A teacher actually told me that they no longer had to do that. But that was a few years ago now. I must have been mistaken or did they drop the literature for a few years?

Anyway.....

To add, even though we consider E "gradable", if they've spent yr 12 on Es and then get an E in summer mocks then they have to have a fairly rigorous interview with the head of sixth form before they can be given permission to continue into year 13.

Threatened or warned about the consequences? I think its useful for students to know that if they continue with an E grade, they won't get into the 2nd year of study. Yes, many pull their socks up but it starts with recognising that they either need to do much more work or ask for help.

Ignoring it won't work and neither will getting annoyed with the teacher for stating the obvious.

For information, I have taught many students who went from U/E's in January year 12 to A/B's in final A level, but they all did it with a change in attitude. I also return in year 13 every year with slightly smaller classes because the U's and E's are not allowed to return and it is very rarely a surprise who hasn't made it.

Lots of my friends from school got Ds and Es
Same. But that was in the 90s. Things are different now.

@CurlyhairedAssassin There is a literature element to MFL and always has been. It's pretty rigorous. There's also an element called the independent research project which is a bit like a mini EPQ which they have to defend in an oral exam, a bit like defending in a viva.

I got a Cs and two Es in science A-levels. Lower than predicted. I didn’t quite get the grades for my course but got in as it had low numbers. I managed to get into university and got a first in the degree and went on to get a masters further down the line. An E is a pass. Imagine if I had been stopped from taking the A-level. Teachers should not prevent stundents from taking their A-levels if they are able to pass them.

An E is not good at all. The test will be on the work covered so far so the E is reflective of her level. Unless something changes radically she is going to have wasted her time and would be better off spending the effort on something else.