Tiffin v WHS v KGS v Coombe Girls

[Mamaoftwogirls]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum.

I am looking for some views on secondary schools. My daughter got through to the second stage of: Tiffin, WHS, KGS and we are waiting to see if she gets offers from those schools. We have also applied for Coombe Girls.

I would really appreciate any views from parents who have daughters in any of those schools. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to go to any open days because of the pandemic.

Thanks in advance.

I also have a DD at KGS. She loves it there (although of course it's been so disrupted - she's year 8). The teachers are great at keeping pupils engaged and they are very good at encouraging individuality and curiosity. The kids seem friendly and down to earth. We all had a strong preference for a coed school.

For some the lack of outside space might be a drawback, DD is not one to run around much at lunchtime and it is more than compensated for (to her) by being in Kingston town centre.

I have had dc at TGS and at private London day schools. In my view TGS is a brilliant option and the extra-curricular offer is simply not worth the indie fees if that is your only point of difference. DD at Tiffin was still (for example) able to do lots of rowing, take part in debating competitions, run the chess club, go on ski trips, do D of E and play netball against the likes of e.g SPGS and PH. My DC at 'top' indies did not make nearly as much use of the famed facilities as you might think, although they did have Saturday morning sport all through their teenage years.

I think TGS's reputation on here as a sort of joyless treadmill and exam hothouse is very out of date.

[quote sanam2019]@violetcobra, very interesting to hear as we will likely also be choosing between Tiffin vs WHS/KGS at some point and have the same concerns about extracurricular provision. I thought Tiffin was relatively good in that respect, compared to other state schools. Would you add your thoughts to this thread? Might be very helpful for the OP:
Nonsuch vs WHS[/quote]
I think it really depends on how much importance you place on extracurriculars - Tiffin does have the 'standard' clubs (orchestra, debating, sports) but little beyond that, and if you are interested in more niche areas (art & design, philosophy, creative writing, politics) there's not very much on offer and private schools are generally much better in that regard.

I agree that if you actually have the Tiffin offer and the independent schools, £20k is a lot to pay for the shinier facilities and experience which is a bit different, unless you are absolutely loaded and won’t notice the £20k is gone at all.

In reality, in terms of ability Tiffin will always be harder to get into as it’s a numbers game. So many apply per place.

Every year a handful get Tiffin who then go independent. They tend to be the people with vast vast incomes or those who are attracted to the independents by big bursaries and scholarships.

There are more clubs, and there will be nicer facilities and smaller classes and a parent body who are more established in affluence and so more willing to support the idea of degree courses such as History of Art or courses which don’t directly lead to a career, whilst the Grammars will have lots of parents who are very focused in medicine or law or very obvious career paths. The independents often dont have such an able cohort, but somehow squeeze as good or better results from their students, and interestingly, better uni destinations overall. But whether those things are worth £20k when Tiffin will deliver a fantastic academic education and a vast array of extra curriculars is a hard one to turn down, unless the journey would be crazy or money no object.

Coombe is highly regarded too. Clever girls will do really really well.

A lot depends on the sacrifices school fees will mean for you and whether you value the extras that independents will offer to the tune if £20k.

Personally, I’d think it was worth it if the state options were poor, but if the alternatives are Tiffin or Coombe, really not worth it. You’re paying an awful lot for a bit more, but actually not that much more.

And as a PP said, any one child can never take advantage of all the clubs available in any school....so the fact it offers 120 clubs isn’t really the issue. You have to consider what YOUR child will do and benefit from, and with things like results, you have to consider how YOUR child is likely to do and where they might fit in the cohort.
Likewise, any one child can only go on so many trips.

Distance is a big big factor. A long journey to any type of school makes it much harder to engage in the wider aspects of school and is best avoided if at all possible.

I went to Coombe in the 90's, as did many of my friends. We did ok.... some went to uni, others straight out to work. we are all decent people with good jobs... a solicitor, a consultant in a London hospital, a director at a pharma company, dental nurse, police officer and a political researcher amongst other jobs.

It has a long standing good reputation and has sets to support the various academic abilities. Coombe, Holy Cross and Tolworth girls schools will all get the clever girls who just missed out on Tiffins so all are high ranking state schools.

I agree with Wombatchocolate. I think if you have Tiffin you would have to earn a lot of money, family inheritance etc to be comfortable in not sending your DC there

We had the choice of TGS vs WHS and went with WHS. We don't have vast amounts of money or any bursary/scholarship. For us the difference was a one hour journey vs a 10-15 minute journey for a summer born child. This was really handy in year 7 with an exhausted child and really really useful right now in year 8 for keyworker school, we have excellent provision and I wouldn't have been able to get her to school and also work if she was so far away. Online provision and pastoral care has been excellent.

I can only comment on WHS. There is a large range of extracurricular clubs which have switched online this term. The sports clubs go down to F teams and play other schools (in non Covid times) so anyone who wants to play can.

My own experience of grammar school wasn't great. I really like the fact that my daughter is taught outside the curriculum and the school has a degree of freedom rather than being an exam factory. I love the fact that all girls have to study PPE in year 10 and also the focus on STEAM.

My daughter is Y9 at TGS and very happy/inspired/flourishing. She had offers from several local private schools including a 50% academic scholarship from one. Don’t know Coombe but it has a good reputation. Other schools all seem great options and I know of girls at all of them who are happy and doing well. For us,finance was part of the the decision so that made it easier. I agree with PP that TGS is not the joyless exam factory, churning out unhappy medics that it is often painted - I’ve never heard that view from girls (or parents) who are actually at the school - at least not recently, but maybe we have been lucky or the pressure gets piled on later. So far my daughter is very happy and it feels like the right choice.

@user1485813778 that sounds lovely. During the autumn term, how much time did your daughter spend on daily homework, on average, would you say? Does she have time for many extracurriculars or are her afternoons / evenings taken up by homework / studying?

@sanam2019 Prior to lockdown, my eldest at TGS did netball (at school), rowing (outside school), swimming (outside school) and orchestra (at school) and music lessons (at school and outside school) on a weekly basis. On top of that, there is skiing and climbing during the holidays.

The homework load is not heavy. She has plenty of time to devour books and meet friends.

There are some posts suggesting private schools teach beyond the syllabus in a way that grammars do not and get better results too.
If you look at the data, you will see that TGS has better aggregate academic results than WHS and PHS, but worse than SPGS. You can also compare results on a subject by subject basis.

In terms of teaching beyond the syllabus, there is some of that at TGS. I have seen teaching of more advanced topics.

I shall also raise the somewhat contentious issue of networking. SPGS will be better for connecting with very wealthy people, WHS and PHS not so much.

@sanam2019 - re homework - very roughly maybe 1 hour a night and 2-4 hours at weekends? I haven’t noticed it being significantly more that my older child, who is at a comp, although time taken can sometimes reflect the child’s approach rather than amount set. As I said this is Y9 so pre GCSE and A level courses, so that might change. My daughter does 3 activities weekly out of school - all non-pressure, non competitive - just for fun, but also spends a lot of time on Netflix/YouTube/chatting with friends. She does have a short commute. She isn’t sporty/musical/into drama and tried a few lunchtime clubs but they seemed to fizzle out a bit, so doesn’t do regular school based activities. So far so good but I am very much aware of the potential pressures - especially for high achieving girls - although these exist at many schools, not just Tiffin.

Thank you very much for your comments.

By way of update, my daughter has been offered a place at WHS. I have attended a virtual offer holder's event and the only thing that concerned me was that one of the parents asked: what proportion of the girls come from state primary schools?...There seemed to be a lot of parents who "liked" that comment. This made me think that it may be an important issue for them. Are there any mums on here who have kids at private secondary schools who can give an honest portrayal about what life is really like there i.e. are kids who arrive there from state primaries treated differently? I wouldn't want this being an issue for my daughter. I doubt this is an issue at TGS or any of the grammars. This is not meant as a criticism. It is something that stuck in my mind and if we are going to spend all that money on a private school then I really would like to get to the bottom of the potential culture there. Thanks in advance.

DD is at WHS from a state primary as are many other girls. It's not an issue at all and noone is treated any differently. You wouldn't know who came from where, honestly.

My DD is at WHS and came from a state primary. Yes they are in a minority but really it couldn’t matter less. I’d say the only impact is it’s possible your DD may be joining knowing literally no-one whereas the juniors all know each other and there is a large cohort from The Study for example. But this doesn’t seem to get in the way of making friends and indeed the junior school girls are really keen to make new friends. Whether you came from a state school or a prep is really a non issue. Academically too I’ve never felt DD was at a particular disadvantage.

Thank you both, that is very reassuring. Like you said, I am sure they will all integrate well.

May I know if anyone has compare Holly Cross School (HCS) as good as Coombe Girls? Waiting list will it be realised in the end? I have HCS ranks no. 2 on Wait list and Coombe ranks no. 7. May someone gives me more insight of the waiting... in these schools?

Also, we are also waiting on TGS (Tiffin Girls). Unsure if has sibling at TGS will do better on the wait list? Anyone can advise us?

Unfortunately, I have no idea about Holy Cross as we didn’t put it down as one of our choices however interesting question about sibling priority for Tiffins (I presume you mean once the sibling has passed the second stage exam). I haven’t read anything about this. It should apply but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t. If they have 500 girls and they have to whittle them down to 180 they will probably be looking at results alone. It is such a ruthless process. So glad it’s coming to an end.

Thanks for a quick reply! I am putting my fingers cross for my younger girl case.

My eldest is studying at TGS Y12 now. I wonder my younger girl, has submitted an in the year admission form to TGS recently, will stand a chance under the sibling queue. My younger is currently studying at another grammar school in Kent. We want to unite the family to Kingston area. We missed all the Y7 admission and only able to do this as an insert student to TGS if possible. My Y9 girl is on wait list on Coombe Girls, Holy Cross, Kingston Academy and not TGS - due to covid-19 - our test has been put on hold till lockdown eases. TGS has informed us there isn't any vacancies for Y9 at the moment.

@Mamaoftwogirls A lot of children move from state to private at secondary. I would imagine the comment was written by a parent of a child currently at state school as they have concerns about being “the odd one out”.

To reassure you, at our north London school, it’s about a 50/50 split between state and private and nobody knows, asks or even cares about where you were before.

Hi everyone

I have a question on WHS if anybody can add to this, and I’m putting it here as it might be of interest to others on this chain

I was looking at the 2019 A-level results for WHS, and I noticed that they only had two girls take further maths in that year, and only five take physics.

Does anybody have a view as to why such a great school has such low numbers of girls taking the subject for A-levels?

I’ll be really interested to know.

Thank you very much

Here’s the attachment

www.wimbledonhigh.gdst.net/userfiles/wimbledonhighv2mvc/documents/05-sixth/results/document-sixth-form-a-level-results-2019.pdf

I just looked at Putney and Godolphin to compare- not much different! Not sure why though- you don’t need physics for medicine I suppose. My DD didn’t even do it at GCSE and is at one of these schools.

@Anonymous111, I noticed the same and was surprised, with all their talk about STEM and the STEAM tower. I suspect the most "mathsy" girls switch to KCS or Westminster for Sixth Form and the STEAM tower was built to encourage more of them to stay at WHS. I do hope it changes going forward.

St Pauls and Tiffin have many more girls doing sciences/STEM.

The SW London GDST schools have a slant towards arts/humanities subjects.