Really need advice re managed move between schools - are schools obliged to facilitate this?

[SallyTimms]

Hi, if there are any admissions staff / SLT / heads who can help Re this it would be really appreciated.

I won't go into depth, dc year 7, a very well behaved, polite, high achieving pupil. Number of positives reflects this and all staff feedback is how well dc is doing, staff enjoy teaching etc.

Issues are the school is abysmal, it's failing and in an academy that is badly managed but refusing to acknowledge this (I was a school governor so aware of the academy in general) its broke, cutting staff including g (this is important) behaviour support by 75%.

Main issue is... Dc was bullied relentlessly by a child in primary. At handover to high-school the tr6 teacher in the closed door handover made it explicit dc and other pupil must be Seperate in the year, the head willingly backed this up by email.

Dc and bully Seperate. But, keyworker attendance means only about 15 pupils of this year in, including dc and bully.

Dc having items taken, online work lost bypc being disrupted but the bully is not doing this bit usi g friends to do this.

School have reacted to this saying they will keep an eye out, but it's put fear back into dc, the Billy obviously is still keeping dc in eye as a target and pupils who were happy to chat to dc are now taunting him... All friends with the bully.

Another high school has confirmed they have space and have been very useful talking to them. They suggested a managed move so dc has 12 weeks to attend the other school in unusual times to ensure everyone is happy before transfers.

I think sounds brilliant, but, is dc current high school obliged to facilitate this? What if they disagree with my reasons? What if they don't want to lose dc as dc is an easy to manage and well behaved pupil? What rights do I have to request or demand this?

It's shit watching Dv be really polite and all ok when they are able to Puck buly out from a distance because they are ingrained at being on guard for them for duration of primary school.

Any help really really appreciated.

Thanks

Not an admissions officer but work in a secondary school as a Data Manager.
Normally managed moves are done as an alternative to an exclusion.
They usually happen when the school the child is at can't meet their needs. So most children coming to a new school on a managed move have serious problems. They are usually suggested by the school rather than the parent
Schools have to take a certain number of managed moves depending on whether they have space.
In your case, the new school is probably very keen as your child is academic and well-behaved. I would not expect your existing school to block the move but they may want to try to prove they can prevent the bullying.
Are you dead-set on a managed move rather than leaving school 1 and joining school 2 - I ask because , if he moves again, or when he goes to a 6th form/college the presumption may well be that he did something wrong if he has had a managed move.

Forget the managed move. Apply to the new school using the normal application through your local authority. As they have a vacancy you will get an offer.

I suspect they're suggesting a managed move so that they can decline any future requests for MMs (normally an alternative to exclusion) saying they've already taken one child in such circumstances.

Ahhh interesting, thanks for extra info. I think for me the managed move was a safety net in case it didn't work, as we can't look round the school so we are sort if jumping in blind.

I am frustrated but, as is always the case, the bully won't be moved, they are clever, and I know the parents absolutely refuse to see any wrong doing and cannot belive their angel would do anything and actually, they feel upset so it's nothing to do with them. I can't keep dc there just to prove a point that my dc shouldn't be put out, long term I think when siblings and their mates (like attracts like, dc quiet, thoughtful, genuinely like a Ray of sunshine, loves nature and outdoors while bully is loud, very very confident, spoilt, mates are thugs and don't give a toss) will always have dc available as an easy target.. It's so well established they don't have to do much to have dc worrying. Its a big pile o poo

@titchy

Forget the managed move. Apply to the new school using the normal application through your local authority. As they have a vacancy you will get an offer.

I suspect they're suggesting a managed move so that they can decline any future requests for MMs (normally an alternative to exclusion) saying they've already taken one child in such circumstances.

Agree with this- the MM seems only to be in the school’s interests and not your DC’s. You could conceivably find yourself in a situation where the new school feels that it hasn’t worked out and you/DC feel differently about him returning to the old school.

Apply for an in year place at the new school. If you don’t like it, make another application for the old school; it sounds like they will probably still have places.

Is the current school oversubscribed? If you did want to move back (would you, it sounds as if there are many other issues with it?) would they still have spaces?

Agree - a managed move is an alternative to permanent exclusion usually or someone who is on the cusp of PEX. Not remotely appropriate in your case & I’m baffled as to why they’d even suggest it. You just need to apply & transfer him over. Job done.

Also forgot to say a managed move has to be agreed by both schools & I can’t see for the life of me why your current school would use a managed move for this. Fair Access Protocol means schools essentially get points for taking kids on managed moves, PEX etc but I’d challenge this at FAP as inappropriate if it was my school.

This is fab, thank you all so much. This is why mumsnet is bloody ace at times.

I wonder if the pastoral staff at the new school suggested it as a helpful handover not fully realisi g implications, just knew it was an avenue.

I've asked potential new school admission person to ring me ASAP to discuss, as well as current school.

If MM is a no go then we just need to decide do we go for it? Casually discussed it with dc who thought is sounded brilliant, I just need someone with a crystal ball...

Sounds like it can’t be much worse...?

I imagine areas differ but I worked in a secondary school for 7 years and last year it became that protocol that all moves between schools became managed moves (not just the exclusion/behaviour type moves). However as a school we never stopped children moving. The 12 weeks was to give the school they were moving to the chance to trial the move and decide if they would offer a place. From the sound of it your dc would have no problem being accepted. Good luck

Thanks for the replies. Update, I spoke to existing school, explained the reasons for our request, I was unexpectedly teary after the xall as they spoke so warmly if dc, said they would be gutted to lose dc but the reasons made perfect sense and to support dc and in their best interest they were happy to go ahead, they are waiting now to hear back from other school. I think the pupil Co cerned is already known to them, along with sibli gs, and furious denial from parents that their dc including older siblings have Bern at fault for any if the incidents they have been involved in, so my concerns are wholly justified.

It was a bit sad as they openly admitted it would be a loss to the school for dc to go, and they hope wherever dc goes its what dc wants and they will thrive, but the door would be open always for dc to return.

So, waiting other school to respond but fingers crossed what happens will be the best for dc.

Hi, I know you posted a while ago so hoping you still see this but I'm really interested to know how you managed to get offered a managed move under bullying type circumstances. My daughters school stated they would support a managed move due to similar circumstances but local authority are stating that a managed move can only take place if there is bad behaviour and there is risk of exclusion as a result of the behaviour. Any advice would be extremely appreciated as we really don't know which way to turn. All other schools in the area are full. Thank you.

@lennyloo123 As per the advice on this thread, a managed move was not appropriate for the OP's child. It is not appropriate for yours either.

If you have evidence that your daughter is being bullied and that her current school is not taking effective action to stop it, you should apply to other schools and appeal when you are refused a place. Your argument for appeal is that your daughter is being bullied, the school has not taken effective action to stop it so your daughter needs another school where she won't be bullied. Most appeal panels would regard that as a strong case.

prh47bridge. I am the op, the managed move was in my child's best interest and it went really well. Not sure why you have decided it wasn't appropriate?

Hi prh47bridge, thank you for your response and appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this. Ive read other egs where a managed move has been used due to a child being a school refuser (eg due to bullying) and resulting mental health issues. In these circumstances, a child can end up excluding themselves from the school and so tit can be the same end result as being excluded due to bad behaviour. So Im just trying to gather info on when a managed move has been used for similar circumstances in different areas as there appears to be a lot of inconsistency on how the process is used.

Hi SolitudeNotLoneliness, would you mind sharing any further info with me on how the managed move was agreed or anywhere it is documented that this process is relevant to us? Happy to speak privately if you prefer. We are going round in circles with the school saying they will support the managed move and Local Authority saying it is not a process to use in our circumstances. They also cant suggest any relevant process to follow and just advise we need to reach out to each school independently and then appeal when we are declined. This is obviously very time consuming and each day is a struggle getting my daughter into school. We have so far gone though one appeal and the appeal decline letter stated we should have followed a managed move process and so we just went round in another circle! Thank you.

I am glad it worked out for you. However, I stand by my view that the way the schools handled this through a managed move was inappropriate.

The school you wanted your child to go to had a place available. If you had applied for a place through the normal in-year admissions process, they would have been required to offer you that place. There was no need for a managed move.

Managed moves are intended to be used for pupils who are on the verge of being permanently excluded. A managed move allows them to be moved to a different school without getting a permanent exclusion on their record. That clearly wasn't the case with your child.

The main difference between a managed move and an in-year admission is that, with a managed move, the new school has a trial period with the child, during which time the child remains registered at their original school. If the school rejects the child, they return to their original school. There is no appeal against this decision. Further, in all the cases I have been involved with where a school has rejected a child in a managed move, it has then rejected an application for an in-year admission for the child and refused to organise an appeal, contrary to the Admissions Code. In this situation, the only way forward for the parents is to take the matter to judicial review, which is expensive.

So, from the receiving school's point of view, persuading the parents to go down the managed move route allows them to pick and choose which pupils to accept and deny the parents any appeal against this decision. In other words, it gives them a way to get around the Admissions Code and deny parents their rights.

I am glad the school in your case ended up accepting your child. But, as they had a place available, a normal in-year application for admission would have had the same result without giving the school any opportunity to take away your right to appeal if admission was refused.

@lennyloo123 - in your situation, an in-year application with an appeal is pretty much guaranteed to produce a place for your child. A managed move could end up with your child still at their current school and with you being denied any opportunity to appeal.

Thank you prh47bridge. We originally appealed the school and our appeal decline letter stated we should have instead followed a managed move process rather that in year admission process. But when a managed move process was then initiated, it was declined due to the new school being in the middle of an in year admission process. We go round in circles! We have an investigation underway into our complaint that our appeal decline letter did not state valid reasons for the decline and hopefully that can get upheld and we can then have a rehearing which allows us to again present our case.

That is a really odd thing for the letter to say. Was there a hearing with an appeal panel? If not, you haven't had an appeal. Saying you should have used the managed move process is not a valid reason for an admission authority to refuse to organise an appeal, nor is it a valid reason for an appeal panel to reject an appeal.

In my old school we would sometimes agree a managed move for a child struggling to attend due to bullying etc. it reassured an already upset child that, should they find the new school not to their liking either, they could remain under their old familiar school until another solution is found or another school that did fit them well could be found. It took the pressure off and if both schools were in agreement it worked well.

The bullied child shouldn’t be the one moving in the first place so at least a managed move would allow them some control and say. We usually agreed a 4 week period rather than the usual 12.

It wasn’t used often, but if done well the child moving felt in control after an already distressing time. The last child we arranged this for thrived and the move went smoothly.

I’m glad things worked out OP.