4 levels, 3+ EPQ or even 4+EPQ?

[Alevelchoice]

Hi everybody
I am looking for some Mumsnet guidance please on A Level choices for my DS.

He wants to do Maths, History and Spanish for A level. Spanish is our home language but he is not 100% bilingual. He is predicted mostly 8s and 9s at GCSE this year. He is able but not a super hard worker. He has ambitions to go to a top uni and do social sciences, probably Economics and Philosophy, or the full PPE.

He was thinking of doing Economics or maybe Psychology as a 4th A level as we think Spanish will be less effort. than a full A level. Lately he seems interested in an EPQ, and I think it could help not only in terms of skills but with the personal statement and application.

We were discussing whether 4 A-levels plus an EPQ would be too much even with one being Spanish. My sense is they would be.

In that case, would it be better to go for Economics or for an EPQ? I am aware that some universities may discount Spanish if it is a home language. He has a Spanish first name and an English surname.

Thanks a lot for any comments or pointers.

Dd got all 8s and 9s last year (no exams of course) and is doing 3 A Levels and no EPQ. She’s finding it hard work. So on that basis I wouldn’t suggest 4 and an EPQ!

Dd has one A Level that she sees as ‘less effort’ (RS - not sure why !) and she says it’s a relief as it cancels out Psychology, which seems to have massive content and History which is pretty full on. So having a ‘less effort’ one out of 3 seems a good idea to me, alongside an EPQ.

3 plus an EPQ in something he is really interested in.

Why is he doing Spanish A level? If it is his home language, he will get much less academic development from it than another relevant subject. If he likes MFLs or is doing it because he likes literature then another MFL or English literature would be better.
If PPE is a possibility then economics as a third A level with history and maths plus a philosophy EPQ would be an option.
He can supplement his Spanish reading at home and take extra Spanish at most universities to gain for example a high level CEFR qualification.

DS1 was told for a degree in Economics or finance Maths was a necessity. Economics probably wise and they suggested a language to keep open the possibility of as many degree courses as possible ( international finance etc)

He's absolutely rubbish at languages so not an option.

We only do 3 plus EPQ here (start with 4, drop one) as too full a timetable otherwise. Exception is Maths and further maths in which case they can continue with 4.

School career advisor was very helpful. Via zoom. Obs

Thank you for all your comments, they are very helpful. There are several reasons to do Spanish. An A level is the most recognised qualification in the UK, and may open doors for uni exchanges or future work opportunities. It will improve his written skills and vocabulary. And he will learn about Spanish society, a bit of culture, and some literary texts.

I have requested a chat with the school 6th form staff but they must be swamped at the moment.

Maths, History, Spanish is a good, broad-based combo which leaves him with a lot of options.
But if he's not a worker, forget four A Levels! As a previous poster said, there is a lot of content for history.

Language A Levels are ridiculously hard- standards (and grade boundaries) are kept high by mother-tongue speakers entries. I wish there were separate A Levels for Native Speakers and ab initio as there is in the IB.

The EPQ is hard work and is only worth considering if he has something he is really passionate about. My eldest was going to do it but couldn't identify her subject easily and I told them not to do it, it didn't stop them getting into the university of their choice with 3 a levels and no epq, in fact it probably helped because their grades were better then I think they would have been if they had done the epq as well.

DS now year 12. Got 9x9 and 2x8 at GCSE which is what he got in his last lot of mocks before lockdown also. He started doing 3 x A levels - Eng Lit, history and French plus AS maths but last week dropped AS maths as the workload is so massive he was spending more time on AS maths than his actual A levels. It is a huge step up from GCSE work. He does 22 hours of work as well as lesson time - free periods plus homework. Unless it was maths and further maths I wouldn’t advise doing 4.
for 3 A levels and it is tough.

That went weird at the end! 22 hours of own study I meant and that A levels are tough!

An A level is the most recognised qualification in the UK, and may open doors for uni exchanges or future work opportunities
He won’t need the A level to apply for a year abroad degree. For employment requiring Spanish he can supply evidence in other ways as a near bilingual and in fact most international firms will better recognise international language qualifications. Writing proficiency he can develop at an equivalent or higher level than A level at university classes. Alternatively you could arrange an online course or tutorials for him next year.

The only reason for doing Spanish A level would be if he wanted to do a joint honours that included Spanish.

However if he is interested in a philosophy and economics degree then it makes sense to focus on those subjects within school time (unless he likes self study and will read widely on his own).

Hi @Alevelchoice! I work with schools.

Maths is vital for Economics and is directly relevant for the 'logic' part of Philosophy too. The relevant Maths options would be Statistics and Decision. History is useful, too.

Spanish will not be valued as much as another language or another subject altogether. I would not do Spanish in your son's position. Sorry!

I would suggest three strong A Levels and not to do an EPQ. Do wider reading privately instead; follow his interests and keep brief notes. Will be handy for his Uni Personal Statement and Interviews.

If he wants to study PPE, then would be consider RS A Level? It’s really Religion,Philosophy and Ethics. It goes well with History too. But actually, I see no problem with doing Spanish alongside History and Maths.

It will depend on the sixth form but Oxbridge (Cambridge and Oxford) only require 3 A levels why would you him want to do 4? Better to ace out 3 than possibly achieve a lower grade due to content.

I am now going to contradict that by saying Ds is doing 4 A levels but the 4th one is Further Maths which goes hand in hand with Maths, which is he also taking.

Plus the university courses he has applied for (and been accepted onto 4 of them, just waiting on Cambridge) all require Maths and Further Maths. There is a huge overlap so really it isn't 4 A level subjects per se.

He has 5 hours per subject so 20 hours a week, plus a tutorial, plus an assembly. He is incredibly dedicated and hard working whereas a few of his mates who sailed through GCSEs are now struggling with A levels. Some of them have dropped out of Further Maths too to concentrate on the main 3 they are taking.

No EPQ as he is doing Computer Science at university so although valuable for some subjects, not his.

You need to be looking ahead, look at course requirements for the degree he may want to pursue and see what they require A level wise.

Thank you everybody, lots of food for thought and good logic in your comments.

If he does 3 + Epq he could make his epq the subject that he didn't do at A-level.

My dd is doing 3+ Epq and a part-time job and is very busy. I wouldn't do 4+Epq when top unis only require 3 and you don't need A-level Economics or A-level Psychology to study them at uni.

DD1 did 4 A levels plus EPQ and had a part time job. She got 4A*. I don’t know how she did it. She worked very very hard. The EPQ was in a subject she was very passionate about and formed a key part of her personal statement.

@dizzydizzydizzy

DD1 did 4 A levels plus EPQ and had a part time job. She got 4A*. I don’t know how she did it. She worked very very hard. The EPQ was in a subject she was very passionate about and formed a key part of her personal statement.

I am in awe...

Both my DS did 4 (not further maths). Both are very bright but lazy. It was a good choice for them as they would not have used the extra time for extra reading / developing interests etc so it meant their UCAS form at least had one thing going for it! They would have used the extra time for socialising / sleeping in. Also as offers are on 3 it gave them a buffer as they only had to get A/A in 3 out of 4 (both are last minute revisers / complacent so I was always worried that would catch up with them!) They both cruised through school without much effort and dont get stressed by homework deadlines. They didnt have PT jobs during termtime. I wouldn't do 4 if one is history unless they are very efficient at churning out essays as it is probably the one with the highest content. If he wants to do 4 then given Spanish may be seen as easy for him I would do maths, econ, spanish and psych. If he's set on history I would stick with 3 and use the EPQ option to show interest in politics/philosophy etc to help with interview. The grade boundary for MFL is higher than other subjects because of the high number of native speakers who do it so it will still be hard to get A as he will be competing against alot of others who are also fluent. Maths is a big step up - has he done FM at GCSE? DS1 found that was surprisingly his weakest subject at A level. Many start with 4 and then drop one and teachers will be quick to tell you to drop one if they think it will affect grades. DS1 did 4 A levels + EPQ but it wasnt worth it and he didnt enjoy his EPQ and it was a chore to fit in. def do not do 4+EPQ if the EPQ is done in Year 13 - at DS school they did the EPQ by end Year 12 so it was out the way.

Thank you for your response. If I understand you correctly, the reasons for not doing Spanish as a fourth subject are, first, that it would not count for Uni admission and, second, that it would be hard to get an A* due to the high numbers of fluent speakers. There seems to be consensus that History has a very heavy workload.