GCSE languages

[catatecheese]

Hi,
I need advice on GCSE options for my son ( year 8).
He is top sets maths and science and wants to do things like statistics, computing and engineering rather than a language.
Is this a bad idea?
DH thinks it's fine , both of us did GCSE got decent grades and now hardly able to read a menu.
DH went to Oxbridge and thinks it's not needed and it's the GCSE grades that count?.
I'm worried about putting him at a disadvantage.
On the other hand he has not been in school now very much and has had no practice actually speaking this language and it doesn't look like holidays to help are going to be an option. So maybe not ideal to do a language.
Please any teachers advice here. DS is a very bright science mind type of child who has an interest in engineering and medicine. What do we do?
I feel these children are already at such a disadvantage we can't make any mistakes on his behalf.

He does not need a language to go to any university. The only one that prefers one is UCL and even they will let you do a language course there if you do not have one.

If he is more science/maths minded it is likely he will do A levels and a degree in those areas so no issue with the ones he prefers above. Oxford do look at gcses in the context of the school at which they are taken (Cambridge less so) and your DH is correct better to get better grades than to take a language to be more rounded. That said mine did do a language and it was his only 7 in a set of 9/8s.

YY what seasonfinale says. No need for a language at GCSE - not having one will not stop him going to any uni.

Obviously it will stop him doing MFL A level but that doesn't sound as if it is an issue.

MFL is my subject and I am passionate about it, and I would have encouraged ds2 to do MFL GCSE if his school hadn't insisted on it. just from PoV of a rounded offer - a GSCE in MFL will always look good (assuming a reasonable grade)

But if your DS really isn't keen then I wouldn't push it. Personally I would rather teach a weaker student who wanted to do the subject than a clever kid who hated being in my lesson!

He basically doesn't have space to do everything. He wants to take statistics, computing, engineering , Geography, triple science and obviously mAths , English and English literature so can't fit in a language. I expect he will do maths and science A levels both DH myself did sciences.
As long as it will not look bad I will let him get on with it.
I did my GCSES in the 90'sand we had to do a language so I'm just behind on what is ok now.
Thank you.

most schools will insist on one MFL at GCSE, as well as one humanity in the interest of balance, I am a little surprised your school isn't.

@montlieu that's just not true. My kids go to an outstanding state school with the best results for miles around, but they don't force them to do a language or a humanity. SOME schools do, and it isn't especially sensible, as resentful children being forced to take a subject they never chose do not make for happy classrooms, and they hold others back and spoil it for those who genuinely do want to learn. I say this as an MFL teacher. I do believe we are rubbish at getting kids to choose languages in this country, and to this day I don't know what the solution is to that, but they should not be forced. OP, if your son is likely to enjoy another subject more and/or get a better grade, don't worry about it. I have encouraged both mine to take a language at GCSE and they have done so without much joy but with a reasonable amount of goodwill - but then they are not science boffins either so it has been good for them.Equally, if they had felt strongly about it I would not have forced them. There is a perception that languages are difficult compared to other subjects, and there is some truth in that, so I do believe that a student with an MFL GCSE at a good grade looks like a strong candidate to universities, but there is no requirement to have an MFL GCSE. If you're looking at an 8 in geography or a 6 in French, I'd take geography!

Good post Biscuitsneeded. I agree. Presumably the OP's son doesn't have to do MFL GCSE. I think schools are starting to realise that it's not the best thing to make students do a subject they hate.

Tho it does make me sad that so many hate it.

My old school did not make students take MFL, but in fact the last year I was there, 100 or so out of 220 chose to 😀

Another MFL teacher here. I'd also let him choose what he's interested in rather than force a language upon him; he's just likely to do better if he enjoys the subject.

Statistics GCSE for an able mathematician may be tedious. Is there another more interesting option for him or something that would help improve his future discursive writing skills as a scientist (in addition to English).
Often the reason DCs dislike MFLs is the need to put regular time in to memorise vocabulary or learn extra grammar. Without the stimulus of using the MFL to communicate it can seem pointless effort, especially for DCs who prefer problem solving or for those who have relatively poorer memory retention.

DDs school (also Year 8) do make you take a MFL option as well as a Humanities option. If this isn’t a strength, I’d avoid! I come from the opposite perspective, DD is top set English and loved both French and Spanish last year and found them easy. She’s had to choose just one this year (French) and while she can do both at GCSE, she’ll have missed out on a year of Spanish. She has to take both Computing & Science at GCSE which while she’s in stream 2 (of 4) she doesn’t enjoy and struggles with.

I do get that these forced selections are to give DC a more rounded education but they don’t always play to a child’s strengths!

Def do not need it ...good question had to do endless research and emails to Russell Group unis ...the group which comprise the best unis in UK ..and the majority said no ...also whilst I am sharing they also don't pay much attention to things such as Duke of Edinburgh award which was not good news as I had dragged her reluctantly through it to silver

Even if the school offers statistics and engineering (most don't) timetabling is normally built around a cross section of subjects including MFL.

They have to select a subject from blocks.
You have to be top science and maths to select engineering and statistics.
The school is a high achieving school and 6th form they are linked with has a very high Oxbridge rate so not concerned over those subjects. It's just the lack of a language I was worried about.

@catatecheese

They have to select a subject from blocks. You have to be top science and maths to select engineering and statistics. The school is a high achieving school and 6th form they are linked with has a very high Oxbridge rate so not concerned over those subjects. It's just the lack of a language I was worried about.

One other thing not mentioned is that if no MFL GCSE is taken, then the child doesn't qualify for the ebacc. This extra qualification (for no extra work AFAIK) requires one MFL and a Humanities subject as well as Maths, English and Science. Might be worth checking if potential unis look for the ebacc or not?

meredusoleil the Ebacc is not in any sense an extra qualification.

It is a made up way of ranking schools, which unfortunately has led to a lot of schools insisting on students doing MFL and humanity against the desire and enthusiasm of the student. Ds2 dud Soanish abd he says it was de-motivating to be in a class full of people who didn't want to be there. A lot of them got very low marks too.

No unis require the Ebacc.

The ebacc is a made-up piece of Govery to set schools against each other and promote his elitist notion of what education should be, based on his public school experiences 30+ years ago. Kids dont even get a piece of paper if they get the EBacc. Best ignored!

Hi @catatecheese! I work with schools. @SeasonFinale has offered an excellent summary of universities and languages.

But does your son's school not insist on at least one foreign language for GCSE?

We now have a boy in Year 12 who, with his parents, wanted to drop everything except STEM subjects, doing Additional Maths and Computer Science. We insisted on English Language, English Lit and Geography. He now loves Romeo & Juliet and Macbeth! And he is doing Geography as a fourth A Level. (His writing has improved but still needs work.)

Children evolve and have a great capacity for developing and appreciating the wider wonders of the humanities. Is this not important as a key ingredient in a rich and fulfilling life ?

Hi, No they don't appear to have to do a foreign language. Obviously they do have to do English, English literature and he will do Geography. Why would doing Spanish encourage a love of Shakespeare? You lost me a bit then as that's under English.?
I did do a language GCSE but honestly I can't argue it has actually helped me at all, it was a struggle and not even a language I have needed as an adult. Which is why I am asking here for better informed opinions.
He is not dropping subjects because he want to the question is literally should he do a foreign language to help future prospects? He can't do everything he wants and under current circumstances he hasn't actually had much chance to expand on a language.
But he is highly likely to get top grades in his option subjects. Plus because they are selective in ability he will automatically be placed with peers who are likely to be hard working ( nerdy) kids. Which as parents is obviously also appealing! 0