Mid year secondary appeal due to relocations - COVID

[NKffffffff9c2d050aX113c457a623]

We are relocating from Lincolnshire to Wales. My husband was made redundant last February and due to working in Steel Industry we are having to relocate to Wales.

We have found an area to live, unfortunately only 2 hours from London on the train so has become even more popular apparently during lockdown, with people leaving the city.

The catchment school is one of the best in Wales. In her year they are 5 over the normal number.

My daughters is currently year 9 in a selective grammar school. Catchment school has similar results.

Due to COVID I am struggling to communicate with the council, except to find out which school they will allocate, no other emails have received a reply.

I have contacted the school by email they have said they would like to support my daughter but here is the link to ccouncil that they are governed by. I assume this is just a standard response.

Not sure how to base the appeal. These are my arguments

My daughter is currently in a school with high expectations, and used to being stretched and challenged. I imagine they are ahead of the syllabus in some comprehensive schools. I know they are in maths.

My major concern is the ability of my daughter to settle in an area 250 miles from home. 10 hour round trip to go catch up with friends"

COVID will make it harder to make friends in the area she lives, with currently no contact outside school, and when schools open it will be a while before clubs in the village start again.

If she isn't meeting her peers at school it is going to be very isolating.

Proposed school is half an hour away and Estyn report says able pupil don't make expected progress. Can I compare schools in appeals process. also been told supply teachers don't go there due to behaviour. I think would be a culture shock from grammar school expectation.

Any advice welcome? I can find info for year 7 appeals online but struggling with mid year appeals.

Has anybody appealed in the last year due to moving, has the isolation factor of lockdowns been taken into consideration? Her siblings are both now at uni so home life is more isolating too.

If the school is 5 over in numbers and has at least 6 forms so space for one more, is this a valid argument?

Can I ask for class sizes for the school? Would this be good evidence.

What evidence do I need to gather? Should I consider paying someone to help with the appeal?

I am new to mums net, but have been advised you are a great place to ask.

Thank you for reading

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove name]

Generally you shouldn't focus on why the other school is bad, but why this school is good. The advice is to imagine that one of the panel members has sent their child to the other school. As well as the focus on local friends look at things such as clubs, does the new school run a debating club for example and she enjoys debating. Are there similar languages to those she studied at her old school? Focus on the opportunities in the desired school. Half an hour away and supply teachers not wanting to teach there are not really considerations for the appeal as for the panel the education authority haven't shut the other school down so although unattractive it is still a valid option. Would living in your village usually always get a place at desired school in yr7 or is it somewhat random? Is the half hour her travelling on buses or you driving? How long would it take door to door on public transport?

Much of the information relevant to a year 7 appeal will still be relevant and yes question why if there are 6 classes but only 5 over PAN why there can't be an extra person in the other class, although there may be more children with complex needs in the other class. Can she remain remote learning for now with her existing school or have you deregistered her. It will take a while for the appeal to be heard but worth a shot at it.

Op - I've reported your post as its not a good idea to put your name in your post. Hope it's not your real name but did it just in case.

Hi op, I am no expert but my understanding is:
You need to appeal for the school you want - not against the allocated school
What does the favoured school offer your dd?
Is she musical? Is there orchestra or choir?
What other clubs - drama, writing club?
What about GCSE options - if there are things she hopes to do (two languages, engineering, graphics, computing) are they offered?
Is she sporty? Does the preferred school have sports teams?

Sorry but distance of half an hour (by car? bus? on foot?) is considered reasonable. I sympathise with yr dd but equally, her friends being five hours away is not going to have any weight.

Others on MN know more than I do, also I assume the rules are similar for Wales and England. HTH.

Yes I meant to say also what language is she studying now - if that is offered at favoured school and not at the offered one that's a point worth raising. It's not easy to pick up German in yr 9 after studying French since yr 7.

Language option is difficult. Currently does Spanish which isn't taught at either school. Will need to learn Welsh, so two new languages in year 9. Loves Spanish too so might do privately.

Definitely don't compare the schools. You are pretty much saying

'that other school isn't good enough, it's good enough for those children who go to it but it's not good enough for my dd'. That's not going to go down well!

You need to focus on what the school offers. Chess club and your dd has been playing since she was nine, opportunity for basketball and she's talented at that etc.

When I did mine, we had also moved into an area where dd knows nobody. I did mention that it would be beneficial for her to go to school in the area she lives.

I'll see if I can find it...

Xxxxxx Church of England Junior School is only yards from our home and is the school that Jane would have attended, along with the other children from our estate, if we had not gone abroad.^ These social links are very important to Jane , particularly in view of the recent disruption she has had by leaving behind her life in Australia which she has found very difficult.^

As a family, we are eager to feel a part of the local area once more and Jane attending our local school would facilitate this. As parents, we have always been involved in our children's schools. This is somethings that is encouraged at xxxxxx Church of England junior School and to continue this would help Jane to settle in the new surroundings. Jane's sister has a place at Yyyyyyyy College, our normal area secondary school.

In England you can look up all the school.census data which shows you how many children are in each year going back a long while.....so yes focus on the fact that it is 6 form entry and that 5 classes already run successfully at 31 (or whatever the number is) so surely the additional class would also work at that size. -- you can probably do similar in wales

You can also download the size of school.buildings so can add that the square footage of each classroom is the same etc

Also go through other years.....do they have 1 over pan in each other year? Or have they historically.

Don't underestimate the social aspect....New area, new friends, local friends

Look through the school website....any wording about local school for the local community?

Have you actually applied for a lace and been formally rejected yet? You do not need to appeal until then .

I've won a secondary school appeal and what I would say is this...
Focus on why this particular school is the only school that can meet the needs of your child. E.g. your child has mobility needs and this school has a lift.

If you can't think of good reasons that fit the above then you probably shouldn't bother appealing and focus your energy on making the school she gets into work for her.

I disagree with Estelle. I applied for a space for 2 of mine at the local school. Eventually 1 got in from waitlist. I was prepared to wait for the younger ones space as we were top of the list. But I kept seeing other kids get admitted before us - as they trumped us in priority or they had appealed. The HM basically told me the only chance I had of gaining a space was to use the appeals process. So I went in thinking I had little chance but nothing to lose. I researched. I presented my case. I won. My son is now at the same school as his sister, 5 minutes walk from the house. It was worth it for me and my kids.

Hello @NKffffffff9c2d050aX113c457a623 - we've removed your name from your OP.

Thanks

Sounds like you had a good case with sibling at the school

Can't apply until have exchanged contracts or have rental agreement, but told will be rejected by the council. So I am researching the process of appealing.

@EstellaHanclay

I've won a secondary school appeal and what I would say is this... Focus on why this particular school is the only school that can meet the needs of your child. E.g. your child has mobility needs and this school has a lift.

If you can't think of good reasons that fit the above then you probably shouldn't bother appealing and focus your energy on making the school she gets into work for her.

I agree with the focus on why this school would be ideal for your DD, but disagree that it needs to be 'the only school' that is right for her and the arguments definitely don't need to be disability based, or exclusive. I used to sit on appeals panels.

For secondary school, it is a prejudice appeal. That means that you only have to show, on a balance of probabilities (ie. 51%) that this school is more important to your DD than the 'harm' that admitting another child to the school would bring.

Always focus on the school you want, never the school you don't want, unless there is a very specific reason why the school offered is completely impossible to accept (e.g. You are a police officer and have arrested a violent person whose children attend the school; you have a foster child whose birth parents attend the school and can't know where they live; your child was bullied with police involvement and the whole gang attend the school, etc.)

However, the benefits of the preferred school don't, each on their own, have to be massively strong. The overall strength of the argument will come as a whole.

~Don't talk about travel unless your child has a particularly awful illness made worse with travel, a disability that makes travel particularly hard, etc. The panel isn't going to decide that it's unfair to travel, and the LA must offer transport if it's over 3 miles.

~Do talk positively about the curriculum offered, clubs, etc., at the preferred school. It is ok to say "Preferred school offers x, offered school offers y. DD really likes x but is less keen on y because xyz."

~Do talk about peer groups, links with locality, etc., but, again, positively about preferred school.

~If you talk about behaviour, do it with regard to the culture of the preferred school - even if the offered school has knife wielding thugs and half the year end up in prison, do not put the panel in the situation of having to say that a school is 'bad'.

The LA has to give you any information that you ask for, that would reasonably help you with your appeal. So don't be afraid to email and ask questions. If they don't reply, that can be included in your bundle. "I asked for x information, but got no reply".

Good luck.