Atom learning - what scores are expected for top grammars

[user198434798]

Got a month of atom learning to prepare DS who is in Y5 for some of the very selective grammar schools. He seems to enjoy the platform and there are a lot of mock exams he can do from lots of different schools which is very useful.

I know the atom webpage has some guidance on what sort of SAS scores kids need for some of the top schools (117+ for Henrietta Barret or QE for boys), but I wanted to know how accurate that is. These scores seem a little low given that I've heard how super competitive these schools are. So, has anyone used Atom and can comment on what sort of SAS scores you think are needed to get into the top grammars (we're in London).

Hi
We used atom, my DC was consistently scoring around 125-130+ In the ISEB mocks and past papers and didn’t get through any of the super grammars or top independents.

I’m not sure what you should be aiming for unfortunately :(

Sorry I should add...it really depends on your child on the day...

Hi
We used Atom and my DS was getting scores in the 130-140 range closer to the exam. We used it for about 5 months and he started at around the 120+ mark and steadily improved.

He passed QE Boys, Kent, Bexley(top 180), Medway and first stage St Olaves. He also wrote ISEB and got an interview with one of the 2 schools we applied to. We haven't heard from the other school.
That is our experience but it does depend on the child. Atom was useful for ISEB as my DS is in a state primary so not used to the testing method. I cancelled our subscription as soon as we finished with ISEB and prepared him for written exams using other materials.

Thanks for the replies. This is helpful.

Yes, my intuition was that you really need to be getting more than 130/135 for the top schools and the SAS scores they suggest on their website seem low to me.

I've become a bit complacent seeing his scores on Atom and have been leaving him to his own devices, just asking that he gets on with mock papers on there. We've done Bond as well, so I think I'll supplement the atom with other written papers/books/practise etc.

I agree it really depends how they perform on the day, especially for the top grammars/independents where even a couple of marks can make the difference between getting or not getting an offer.

I'm just very cognisant of not wanting to push him too much, going for the little but often approach but when I go on other forums where parents have been prepping their DCs for the 11+ since Year 3 and are putting in several hours a day, it makes me a little anxious.

definitely 140, my dd got it a few times [it's the maximum]

140 isn’t the very top is it?

Ds got 135 to 143 but waiting on ISEB private school response

The highest my DS scored was 142 and still got a couple of questions wrong with that score so a higher score must be possible.

My DS was scoring high 120s for English, ~130 on VR/NVR and 136-142 (max) for Maths on ISEB pre-test towards the end.

He passed Sutton Grammars (SGS and WCGS, but missed Wilson's cut-off by several points) and Kent, but not Tiffin and St. Olave's (missed stage 2 by a point). Had one (out of threee) interview invitations on the back of ISEB (we'll hear about the other two next week).

Please bear in mind that most of Atom's non-adaptive tests (i.e. other than ISEB) were significantly easier than the real thing. So for those, past written papers and tailored grammar papers from ExamPaperPlus worked really well for us.

Oh, interesting threat. We have only just been trying it for a few days and my sons scores are rather lower (although he really focused on one today and got in the 130s). I'm glad I saw this thread because it means I can manage my expectations, and just keep my fingers crossed.

My DC, currently in Y6, started doing Atom in the November before the test (2019) and was scoring 110-120 on the adaptive mocks (ISEB) with the lowest stanine/decile being 6 and 3 respectively.

He didn't use Atom religiously after that as he also had a Tutor and we used GCP and Bond books with him, plus gave him past papers (GL, CEM and indies) to complete in the Summer before the tests were due. We increased Atom from September onwards (basically ensured he completed the weekly targets and focusing on weaker areas by using custom practices and mock tests).

He was achieving a top score of 142 in the Bexley mock test, 142 in the Olave's and similar for many of the indies e.g. Eton reasoning etc but generally scoring 125-142 nearer the time of the tests on the ISEB (most of which were in November/December).

He achieved Top 180 in Bexley, through the first stage in Olave's and through to the second/final stage of two highly competitive/top London schools. Interestingly, some of his friends scored higher than him in the Olave's SET but they did not pass through to the second stage of the indies and I believe probably what set DC apart was his relatively stronger English/VR.

The actual score on Atom is less important than the statine/decile (DC was generally scoring in the highest i.e. 9/1 towards the end). I do agree, that the school specific mocks were not generally as difficult as the real thing whereas the ISEB / adaptive tests are useful. There is an area on Atom which lists which standardises scores are generally required for the various schools (indies and grammars).

A month before the test DC was scoring 115-138/142 - very variable - on Atom so there is still time to get that score up.

Good luck!

Great, thanks! Very helpful replies!

My plan is to alternate atom and other written papers/materials. Since atom is expensive, for the month that I get a subscription for, we go all out on there and do as many mock tests from different schools to give exposure to a wide variety of questions that can come up and then in the month when I don't have the subscription we do written papers, workbooks etc.

I agree that some of the school specific papers on Atom do seem quite a bit easier than the ones I print off their webpages and that is definitely something to be mindful of.

I should have mentioned that Atom's test scores tend to be 8-10 points lower than the CATs e.g. if St Paul's were to expect CATs of 130, the Atom score would need to be around 120-122. Hope that makes sense!

I really wouldn’t use Atom for grammars - I only used it for ISEB - my son passed Tiffin but we used GL assessment and similar (harder) multiple choice papers to prep for that. Before the ISEB he was scoring 136 - 140 for Maths, English and VR and around 125 for NVR.

I don’t think 140 is the top score btw - I think he got 142 once on a VR paper

so sorry, yes, 142

got 142 a few times [maximum]

No, the SAS doesn't have anyhting to do with the amount of questions you're getting right, it's to do with how you change level as it's an adaptive test. So if you keep getting most of the questions right when they're still gettign harder, then you're quite likely to get a high sas.

Will be interesting to know whether the advertised 8 point difference (well now they say 6-8 points on their website) for Atom holds true now that so many more kids, including those who are not going for ISEB tests or who have any prep or 11+ tutoring, are using it.

thanks for all the useful info.

We're now trying Planet Bofa - trying still to get my head round their format and the test/retest stuff and the levels of difficulty etc, but it's good to see how DS does on a variety of platforms and see how consistent his scores are across them. It's also nice to chop and change things a bit because it's difficult to keep them motivated otherwise.

I'm getting increasingly anxious about the fact that DS hasn't really had proper schooling for the past year, so has essentially missed out on much of Yr 5 and won't be 'solid' on some of the core concepts. There was no online learning during the first lockdown, they do have online lessons now, but only 1 hr of it on zoom and the rest they have to get on with it themselves. I'm finding so many mistakes/errors in the work that he's being sent, spelling mistakes in english work etc. So trying to teach the core of what they should know in Yr5 and on top of that all the extra work for 11 plus is proving a bit much, given that I'm not a trained teacher.
Anyhow, I ordered some study books which actually have explanations and going through those with him now.

120 - 125 minimum really......

Have you considered tutoring @user198434798? It will help cement the core learning.

We were quite disorganised and only started looking at practice papers & Bond books for Dd1 (Y6) in the first lockdown. It soon became clear that there was quite a bit she hadn't covered and wouldn't cover before the exams. We had an hour a week with a tutor for 3 months over the summer and it really helped to focus on stuff she hadn't done in school (Maths), additional tips for how to write creatively (English) and general setting of expectations. For example, the tutor told us she needed to be getting around 90% in past papers, which she wasn't!

yes we have a tutor and he does 2 hours a week with her focusing on learning new concepts that haven't yet been taught in school yet (which is quite a lot of things actually, especially given that last year has been almost a write off). He's quick to pick up new things but I worry that this is at a rather superficial level given that you're being exposed to lots of new concepts in a compressed timescale and that he doesn't have 'deep/immersive' knowledge of those things, which are I feel what is required to answer some of the challenging questions. Especially in maths, for instance, it's not enough to just know how to do long division/multiplication but know that it's a tool and know how to wield it to answer different scenarios based on real world examples etc.

Yes, I've also heard that you need to be getting in the high 90% for the super selectives - we're definitely not there yet.

Yes, I've also heard that you need to be getting in the high 90% for the super selectives - we're definitely not there yet

This is our experience. (Kent SS). DS made it in by a whisker was getting in the 90's the week before.

They also take into account when you were born, so I think you get extra weighting if you are Autumn child compared to summer. DD was getting more like 80-90% in practice papers and hasn't got an outright place but is on the waiting list and likely to get an offer.

It sounds like you're doing everything you need to. I wouldn't worry too much about the uneven education from lockdown, the vast majority of kids are in a similar situation.

I think most of the 11+ grammar tests are age standardised but far from all selective grammars are. Independents don't necessarily adjust their exam scores for age, unless they're using an online test provider such as ISEB or similar.

My DC had a tutor and we also used Atom to prepare for online adaptive tests. Scores definitely improved and DC scored 138-142
towards the end (though usually lower in the English) and passed grammars with high rankings and was invited and passed first stages of some of the most competitive London schools.

But we also used past/sample papers (indies, CEM, GL) and Bond/GCP books.