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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Delayed restart - private schools? SW London in particular?

57 replies

Letsgetreal · 30/12/2020 00:02

We have just been informed that our DSs school is just blindly and unquestioningly following the DofEs 'guidance' and delaying restart next term and linking it to testing.

In SW London in particular are all secondary schools (St Pauls, Kings Wimbledon, Harriodian etc) just doing this or have any decided that being independent means you get to make up your own mind and dont have have to follow any half-witted 'guidance' (which has no legal basis anyway) or decrees from the government or local council?

Can anyone tell me what other schools are doing or is it 'we will just do the same as the state sector' regardless of the consequences.

OP posts:
minipie · 30/12/2020 00:28

Seriously?

My DC are at a SW London prep not a secondary, but they have followed government guidance throughout as have all the other local preps.

Imagine if the school didn’t follow guidance and a child or parent or teacher became seriously ill with Covid through a case caught at school, that could have been avoided if they followed guidance. They would be vilified. For this reason alone (never mind the more general social responsibility since secondaries are hotspots) I can’t see any private school ignoring the guidance and opening.

Also, being independent doesn’t have anything to do with following covid guidance. All shops restaurants and other businesses are independent, does that mean they can all ignore covid guidance?

If you’re going to press for anything, I would suggest pressing for the best home learning possible rather than opening.

Comefromaway · 30/12/2020 00:53

@Letsgetreal

We have just been informed that our DSs school is just blindly and unquestioningly following the DofEs 'guidance' and delaying restart next term and linking it to testing.

In SW London in particular are all secondary schools (St Pauls, Kings Wimbledon, Harriodian etc) just doing this or have any decided that being independent means you get to make up your own mind and dont have have to follow any half-witted 'guidance' (which has no legal basis anyway) or decrees from the government or local council?

Can anyone tell me what other schools are doing or is it 'we will just do the same as the state sector' regardless of the consequences.

The principal of dd’s school contacted their accrediting organisation and were told that all independent schools must follow the government’s directive.
SnowGnome · 30/12/2020 00:56

We’ve been told school will be following govt guidelines as before. SW London prep too.

Adirondack · 30/12/2020 01:08

Oh yes of course, silly old us - covid only affects ‘half witted’ poor people and those wealthy people in the independent school sector have a special protective shield made from gold coins and soldered together with the tears of little plebeians, that stops them getting the virus and allows them to sally forth as normal.

Pipandmum · 30/12/2020 01:54

Our private school is following the guidelines, though they were able to get from reception to Y8 back full time last June and y9-13 part time.
We don't go back until the 12th anyway. The school also has very strict protocols and have more space which helps. Plus they invested in a rapid testing machine. Online learning was up and running before Easter too so no one missed out, and they can do that now if returns are staggered.

BlackberrySky · 30/12/2020 02:12

Covid is a great leveller. It couldn't care less how much money you have and this isn't something you can buy your way out of. Everyone is having their education disrupted, whether they pay for it or not.

AveEldon · 30/12/2020 06:48

Our schools have not confirmed the plans yet - in part because they are waiting for the latest DofE guidance
They will also take advice from HMC and ISC

I expect not following the guidance risks invalidating their insurance

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 30/12/2020 07:44

My son is at one of the schools you mention and they are totally following government guidelines. And appropriately so.

JustJuice187 · 30/12/2020 07:57

Yes our school is following the guidance - one of the Whitgift schools - and yes I’d be worried if they weren’t.

AnotherNewt · 30/12/2020 08:10

Independent schools are following the government regulations and guidelines. I have yet to hear of one not doing so in any significant way.

Several have told parents they will not be announcing specific plans until early Jan - presumably so they can issue one set of procedures, when Govt advice/rules is settled, not have to flip flop (state schools doing similar)

Widespread expectation that there will be further announcements today (Whitehall meeting yesterday evening) so schools might start to issue their concrete plans

LizDiz · 30/12/2020 08:15

Grin "Oh yes of course, silly old us - covid only affects ‘half witted’ poor people and those wealthy people in the independent school sector have a special protective shield made from gold coins and soldered together with the tears of little plebeians, that stops them getting the virus and allows them to sally forth as normal."

Lairyfightzzzz · 30/12/2020 08:18

Of course private schools have to follow the guidance on this that state schools do. Hmm

Lairyfightzzzz · 30/12/2020 08:18

This is honestly one of the most entitled threads I've ever read on here.

HelloDulling · 30/12/2020 08:21

Your school’s governing body will do what their insurer tells them to do. Their insurer will tell them to do what the government says.

RememberSelfCompassion · 30/12/2020 08:22

Did you also go skiing in Verbier OP? (Im assuming same entitled subset of people for whome rules don't apply..)

TildaTurnip · 30/12/2020 08:25

‘Blindly and unquestionably following’ How do you know this? It’s irrelevant when it comes to this that a school is independent. Insurance and the virus do not care!

NoToMisogyny · 30/12/2020 08:27

Independent doesn’t mean ‘don’t have to follow the law’

warfinch · 30/12/2020 08:30

We're waiting for confirmation from ours (not London), who are presumably waiting for further DfE guidance. They were hoping to start back sooner than the initial guidance, based on the fact that they would be able to test everyone quickly (all students had tests in September). But I'm sure they will (quite rightly) follow the govt guidance if it's more nuanced than 'get everyone in as soon as they've had a test (or two tests)'. The school has been fantastic throughout, so I'm quite confident they will make the right decisions based on whatever flexibility (or lack of it) is available to them. I'm fully prepared to be told that all secondaries are shut for now though (Tier 4).

LincolnshireYellowBelly · 30/12/2020 08:38

Goodness - what a delight the original poster is.

LondonGirl83 · 30/12/2020 08:45

It’s health guidance not education guidance. When it comes to public health protocols, independent schools aren’t exempt nor are private businesses etc.

Letsgetreal · 30/12/2020 09:56

Thank you to everyone who sensibly and courteously answered the question without trying to turn it into a 'class-war' or posing their own straw man question just so they can pat themselves on the back for taking offence at a question I hadnt asked.

My suspicion was that the schools would be obliged to follow the guidelines because their insurance policies insisted on it or their insurance would be invalid, and therefore all independent schools would follow it unless they have negotiated alternative insurance (state schools are self-insured by council wide insurance not on a school by school basis) which is unlikely.

My DCs school has not made it clear that this is the case or that their options had been fully considered which I regard as a failing of communication on the schools behalf. If they had then there would be no need for to me to seek further information about similar schools.

So it is likely to be a commercial decision for the schools - not an educational one or a health one.

And to the the rest of the comments it doesnt seem worth responding to most of them frankly. Covid-19 is a real-world problem and solutions or mitigation will not be found in emotive and subjective language......there is no place in the debate for words like 'appropriate' which are meaningless and unquantifiable.

But in an effort to at least address some of them....

Deep breath......

Guidance is exactly that - advice. It has no basis in law and cannot be enforced. To those of you saying it is an obligation presumably you would also want to see prosecutions for people who dont eat 5 portions of fruit and veg a day as that is also government guidance.

State schools are beholden to their local council and ultimately the government, whereas private schools are beholden to the parents and owners and therefore make their own decisions provided it is not illegal.

It is not 'self-entitlement' to question, analyse and think for yourself. It is rational, logical and intelligent. Self-entitlement is believing that you should be allowed to do as you please irrespective of the reality of the situation and expect everyone else to do as you want as well......a good rule of thumb is anyone who flings out an accusation of 'self-entitlement' against someone is in fact the self-entitled one as they are complaining that the other person is thinking or behaving in a way that they dont like and should be prevented from doing so.

The point about the uproar if it was transmitted within the school because the school wasnt following guidelines is an interesting one. Its curious to know why this is the case (and I agree that there probably would be uproar) here and not for other more serious conditions - why do we not have these guidelines to in-school test for TB for example which is on the increase again?

The flip side of this is of course more serious for the independent sector. Imagine the Covid test being mandatory and a child testing positive forcing the child to self-isolate, along with their siblings and parents and as a result the family suffers a financial loss (maybe the parents business fails) and then it turns out that the test result was false (the PCR is unreliable and should only be used as part of a medical diagnosis) - would the family have a case for compensation against the school who administered the test? And the Liverpool results demonstrate that the Lateral Flow test is similarly flawed by giving excessive false negatives - imagine a child tests negative but is actually positive and is admitted to school. Would any victims of subsequent infection have a claim against the school for any financial or other loss?

OP posts:
LondonGirl83 · 30/12/2020 11:10

The analogies you pose suggest you aren’t really appreciating the unique nature of the current situation.

Rules are being implemented as guidelines because making them laws would be too cumbersome. All the guidelines and rules are in place to avert the collapse of the healthcare system during a global pandemic. Comparisons to eating 5 a day are entirely inappropriate. As are comparisons to TB...

Your school will be following the guidelines developed by SAGE to safeguard their pupils as well as play their role in not exacerbating a public heath crisis. I doubt it’s primarily viewed as a commercial decision but an ethical one in service of pupil and public health.

Comefromaway · 30/12/2020 11:20

A lot of what you say is simply not true.

Independent schools have to follow these things. Public Health England have been into one independent school I know to do a spot check inspection. They have the power to close the school down.

Schools cannot ever be totally independent from the state. To be registered as a school (& it’s illegal to operate without being registered) there are rules they must still adhere to.

Comefromaway · 30/12/2020 11:21

Re: TB. There are strict public health procedures a school must follow if they have a case of TB. Happened at a local school just prior to lockdown.

Lairyfightzzzz · 30/12/2020 11:30

OP you are talking nonsense.

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