Keeping expectations high in lower sets

[PutYourBackIntoit]

Lovely dd1, well behaved, worrier, funny and switched on has had a rubbish start to secondary (even more than most but it's a bit outing to go into).

She's been placed in sets 3 & 4 for English and maths/science which sounds about right based on her current academic ability.

She has some specific learning needs, which mean she does not achieve her potential without a lot of extra time. She has a Myplan for this, senco seems pretty good. CATS and teacher based assessments have placed her in these sets.

Just wondering if parents and teachers out there have any tips for me in order to keep her from becoming lost in a loud class, and to keep everyone's including her own expectations up. We know that she is bright (from WISC tests from camhs -75th percentile).

She wants to be a lawyer, go to uni etc.

For clarity, are they sets 3 & 4 out of 4 or out of 12?

You talk about 'lower sets' and then say she is bright and in 75th percentile.

Not everyone can be top set. That doesn't mean that people not in top set can't aim for 7+ in GCSEs. She needs to try hard and not worry about what number is attached to her set.

There are only 4 sets.

Yes, she's bright and academically underachieving due to spld (slow processing, dyslexia).

If I thought that the set she was in aimed at achieving 7s I would not be at all concerned. I believe generally set 4 children are taught with the aim of a '4' being a good result.
I know with the right support dd should achieve higher marks than that.
So one thing I already do is keep channels of communication up with the senco, make sure her Myplan is up to date. We have tech to help her etc.

What about the rest? I'm a new secondary parent so feel a bit lost myself. Her classes are disruptive. Often she comes home saying she has not learnt a thing, so we go over it at home. There must be others in the same boat....does anyone have any advice??

Ah. OK. My DDs also have slow processing, and low-bottom sets can sadly be more disruptive (disaffection and/or just not understanding).

You can make a big difference by going over stuff that hasn't been understood in class and by making sure end of topic / term tests are properly revised for.

DD1 started secondary in set 7/10 for maths and finished in set 3 - even moving sets between y10 & y11 which was relatively unusual.

If she shows she can do the work they will move her up / at least try to extend her where they can. The problem is that if the teaching is too fast she may well learn less than in a correct-paced but more disruptive class.

Presumably she gets extra time for tests? Do they have a system to enable it for in-class assessments as well as more formal exams?

Does she get to use a laptop? Would them help?

Would them help ?! Would that help?

Thank you and huge congratulations to your daughter for being able to move up so many classes, she must have worked very hard!

We have the added issue that dd is shattered after school and frankly lazy too, but if we catch her at the right moment she's happy to spend 20 mins or so watching me mind map for her. I'm determined to get her mind mapping each lesson for herself, but she needs to want to do it.

I think a laptop would help a bit, but the biggest help is a reader and extra time. She is supposed to get extra time in tests, but unfortunately she did not get extra time in the cats or teacher assessments for setting, which is very frustrating.

My DD2 has always been completely shattered after school too. Just concentrating and keeping up required so much effort she had nothing left to give. It is what it is.

We've dealt with something similar with my dyslexic ds. In the long run the lower sets did help build confidence. Over time he was able to narrow the gap between academic capability and deficits caused by dyslexia. He just took longer than other children to progress in reading, writing and maths. Then he did really well and was sitting at the top of the lower sets.

I've developed a zero tolerance attitude to uninformed staff. If there is an obstacle to his learning because of the learning difference it just simply needs to be removed. Too much focus on spelling errors/practice or mental maths? Just stop - complete waste of time in my opinion. Slow handwriting? Focus on touch typing and move to computer. Keep identifying obstacles, remove them and find alternatives. I'm not British and really struggle with the apathy I see amongst educators here in creating a setting where children with learning differences can feel even minimally comfortable. It doesn't have to be that way.

There's an app called Anki (you have to pay for it on iPhone but not android) or there's a free web version. Which is really helpful for revision, which is something she should be doing all the time, not just when there's exams

My DD is in Y8. She has an EHCP for dyslexia and speech issues. Her primary had no expectations of her and she completely flunked her SATS. Y7 was spent mostly in special classes out of mainstream and we just knuckled down over lockdown. She didn't do any of the work set by the school, it was just rubbish. I sat with her everyday and we went all the way back to Y2 maths and English, working our way to Y4/5 by the end. I used some American curriculum for homeschoolers and we continued over the summer and still some after school.
I was fed up with the system, her IQ is in the 99th percentile but they just weren't working with her. It's impossible to have a completely child led approach, there's just too many of them.
My DDs classes are also disruptive, less so than they were in Y7 but still hard to concentrate. Everyday after school we get her books out and she has to finish whatever she didn't finish in class. I'm always shocked at how little they manage to cover. We go over it and I help her understand.
It's a lot but it's meant she has moved up to set 3 in English and Maths and did really well in her end of term tests for the first time ever. It's a big confidence boost.
Continue doing what you're doing and it will help. These kids often need constant repetition too, as memory is usually effected too.

We have been in a very similar boat with Dd1. Incredibly low processing (bottom 1%), dyslexia and irlene, plus constant migraines. It's been a long and difficult journey. She is in her gcse year and I still have no idea what she will get in her gcses.

I know whst you mean about expectations. I have pushed her very hard as I think she is bright and can achieve a lot and often felt I was the only one who had higher expectations. Some teachers could see her potential, others didn't care particularly and/or would just go with her latest score. It's been a real mix.

I have taught her to work hard and just do the best she can. Worried she will underachieve still but I am proud of the young lady she has become!

Very helpful thread OP. I have some of these questions re my dyslexic DS. He also did poorly in SATS and was quite unhappy in primary school. Secondary has so far been much better, he's much more confident and is exceeding his targets but I am conscious that his targets have been set very low because of his SATS - even in unrelated subjects such as art.

My dc’s journey from straggler to high flyer started a bit earlier than yours, but I wanted to say don’t let the many barriers schools create for dyslexics stop you and your dd from believing in her potential.

The ed-psych assessment was a turning point for us as it allowed our dc to recognise for the first time that they were exceptional at some things, but would always struggle with others. Being comfortable with that was key.

The good news is a bright child can work round the mundane stuff (rote learning, organisation, handwriting) that plague dyslexics’ school careers. With these barriers removed they can shine at the difficult stuff (insight, creativity, conceptual understanding)

It’s required plenty of effort and support on all our parts - and the right school.

You can do it if you believe, and remember it’s not about being unable to spell.

Good luck.

Thank you everyone!

@hedgehogger1 thank you for that app - I will check that out!

@Travelban my daughter is so similar. Plagued with migraines until we got her Irlens filters. She's had a lot more the last few months and I think they might hormone triggered as shes just started her periods. She's 75th percentile for verbal,comprehension and working memory and 5th percentile for processing. Does your child have filters?

As a few of you have mentioned I think her saviour will be hard work. Currently she does not have this instinctively and of course is not going to suddenly decide to work hard because her parents keep telling her to!

I do worry that this is not the right school for her. It's a proper comp in a grammar area. Upsides are it's a short walk (and she takes forever to get up and ready so this is a big upside) and she has a good friendship group there.
Her primary was incredible. Taught everyone individually somehow; she was challenged and supported. She went from several years behind to meeting expectations in year 5. Lockdown happened, both parents working full time and I think she fell further behind most in terms of lost learning time, and now her secondary school seems to be very relaxed compared to her primary. She does much better with strict teachers and routine.

Right, dh badgering me to get off the sofa and go for a walk....hope you've all had a lovely last few days

Has she seen an orthodontist? Me and my sister both had dreadful migraines in KS2. It dragged on until secondary school when we got braces. Now my niece had the same thing my sister took her to an ortho age 8 and her migraines are completely gone thanks to a removable brace. The Ortho said this is really common when kids lose a lot of baby teeth and their jaw misaligns causing really bad migraines. Worth checking.

@PutYourBackIntoit yes they sound very similar. We gave up with the coloured lenses in year 9 as she refused to wear them at school (was being laughed and stared at etc). But I think you may have a point about it being hormonal now as her periods have suddenly stopped with no apparent cause and it has coincided with the migraines intensifying.

Dd was in a very competitive private school and I had to move her in year 9 as the stress of the pressure was eating her up, plus bullying issues. She is now in a more relaxed environment but they don't push her, so I feel that there isn't an ideal set up really. She is fairly motivated now but if I think how bright she is and how much she studies, she should be a straight 9 student which she isnt at all.

I am happy to share any advice I can with you x seen as I am a bit further down the journey, but I wish you all thr best ad I know how frustrating it can be at times.

I am a specialist teacher working with pupils who have dyslexia and I have a daughter with dyslexia. A lot of what I do also involves trying to boost the pupils’ self-confidence and pointing out successes and their strengths. Unfortunately, low self-esteem and dyslexia go hand in hand and so many dyslexics feel that they are stupid. There are some really good videos from famous dyslexics on the Made by Dyslexia YouTube channel. This is a great one by Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock (space scientist) talking about the strengths of dyslexia as well as the challenges

The important thing is that she is the middle set in maths by year 9, otherwise she will end up doing foundation maths at GCSE which will severely affect her options for the future. I have had several tutees in the past who have dyslexia and are stuck in the bottom sets, not because they have dyscalculia or are poor at maths, but because they have difficulty reading word problems without support and may lack confidence in advocating for themselves.

she will end up doing foundation maths at GCSE which will severely affect her options for the future

I personally think that's a bit of an overstatement unless the DD has designs on doing science based A levels.

Could you ask for her to be moved up sets? DS is severely dyslexic but is in middle sets with TA support + laptop. The lower sets would be too disruptive for him to concentrate.

@Turquoisesofa that video is wonderful, and I completely agree with what Dr Maggie says about the curriculum!

Do you have any experience of a reading pen? Would you recommend them at all?

@MsJudgemental I've done a quick search and it says the foundation paper has max grade of a 5 which is high C/low B. When I was at school I did the middle paper in maths, and got the highest mark (B). I went on to do maths A level, mathematical degree and have been working as an accountant ever since. So unless things have hugely changed I wouldn't have thought getting a B or C at maths gcse would be the end of the world.

@Travelban thank you so much for your input. A private school is a possible option, but I want to be as sure as I possibly can be that the longer term academic benefit will outweigh the short term worry and hit to her self esteem. There is a school nearby with a dyslexic unit but it has a Saturday school, and another non selective with small classes and no Saturday school.
Another option is quaker school, but she'd need to board Mon- Fri which I suspect she'd love, but it would mean a complete change in lifestyle for us all (2 younger kids also) in order to afford it.
Interesting that for you private school was more pressure for your dc.

@Cactusowl does your ds have a ehcp in order to have the TA and laptop? I'm unsure if moving up sets is the right move for my dd at this point. I'll wait a term and gauge it after that.

@foxesandsquirrels funnily enough, I've been wondering when on earth we get an orthodontist appointment. Dh takes the kids to the dentist for a family appointment and it's not something that's come up. Dd has very straight teeth but still has a couple of baby ones to come out, so could all change I guess.

I would just take her for a private Ortho checkup. That's £20 where we are in London so I don't imagine it's much more everywhere else. The jaw has a massive effect on migraines.

Hi, I'm an ex-science teacher and we always considered a 5 as very much a top C, not a B. 4 is a bit like the lower end of an old C. 6 is considered roughly equivalent to a B and I think most sixth forms advise/require at least a 6, preferably a 7 or higher to do A-level maths. It would be a struggle with a 5 and they might not even let her. Not trying to be negative but wanting you to be aware that she needs to be getting more help/access arrangements in place now as being in disruptive groups without measures for her dyslexia routinely in place is not ideal if she is wanting to do A-levels. In my experience, most pupils in a group of that nature won't be suited to or get the grades for A-levels and your daughter needs to be surrounded by people who are aiming for a similar path. The dyslexia friendly or non-selective private school sounds ideal if I'm honest! I have a few friends with children who have SpLD at independent schools and the learning environment is much better. They are not all highly pressured. It must be a challenging experience as a keen pupil in the lowest sets if they are disruptive, although sometimes the lowest set can be lovely but just struggle.

DS does have an EHCP (a very loose and fluffy one which we are in the process of making tight. My county as a specialist dyslexia service the school can access and the specialist teacher has been the one to really push for the support DS needs, perhaps there is a similar service in your area.

@PutYourBackIntoit. Reading pens can be useful - the C Reader is the best known and they do a free trial. You need to speak to the SENCO and check she would be allowed to use it at school.

www.scanningpens.co.uk

Happy New Year everyone,

I hope you're all coping OK with whichever situations you are in.

We are day 2 with my yr7 dd at home. It's a complete eye opener!

Luckily my other 2 have gone into primary school as I'm a key worker (albeit shielding and wfh) so the pressure is not as intense as it would be if I had them all at home.

Dd is having all classes starting with a live lesson circa 20 mins with tasks to do in a break before submitting via Google classroom to the teacher.
Yesterday, she amazed me.

She did not stop moving, fidgeting, falling off the chair, talking over the teacher, bursting into song or giggles. She then complete panics when the teacher says 'right then...go do the work and log back in in 10 mins' phones her friends and then in detail, tells them what they need to do and explains why the way they are doing it is wrong (maths). She then marks her work (all right) and then refuses to submitt it as she doesn't want the teacher to mention her on the call or ask her any questions.
When I pushed her, she completely panicked.
This pattern was repeated each lesson.

So she is invisible to the teachers...she has camera off, hasn't submitted classwork, but has done some really good maths and writing.

Today, slightly different. Her period started and she spent the day wrapped in a throw, crying, because she couldn't concentrate (she still listened to each of her lessons going on). I just had to leave her to it because I had to work.

We have an EP coming to assess her in March. I can't bloody wait!

Also....bottom set science and the lesson was about initial velocity....wtf are the top set learning??

Please let me know how yours are getting on!