Nonsuch vs TOGS - help!

[AyesMum]

We're on the horns of a Big Dilemma

DD has done pretty well in the Kent Test, and we're optimistic about her securing an OOC/Governors' place at TOGS.

She's also written the Sutton 11+ for Nonsuch and Wallington, and while the results are due next week, based on her performance in the mocks we're hopeful she will do well enough to be able to get into Nonsuch (we're OOC).

That brings me to my dilemma:

We're finding it hard to choose between the two . The two schools seem to be very different, at least going by what we've seen on their virtual open days. DD is bright and studious (though it's hard to say that for such young children) and is also very creative.

TOGS would mean a move - we're in Croydon. We may be able to manage without a move for Nonsuch, but it would mean a 45-min commute each way.

And then there's the matter of the curricula - TOGS is IB and Nonsuch is GCSEs.

Would really appreciate any guidance from anyone who knows anything about either school. Appreciate there will be very few who might have had to weigh this particular pair of choices, but any insights would be very helpful.

We need to submit our final order of preference to the council tomorrow. Help!

@AyesMum , have you looked at the elevenplus.co.U.K. forum website too?

Re IB v GCSE, who knows where the educational system will be in 5 years time.

If you daughter is bright she will do well wherever she goes, I would find out more about that commute to Nonsuch and avoid a house move.

[quote Singingrain1223]@AyesMum , have you looked at the elevenplus.co.U.K. forum website too?

Re IB v GCSE, who knows where the educational system will be in 5 years time.

If you daughter is bright she will do well wherever she goes, I would find out more about that commute to Nonsuch and avoid a house move. [/quote]
Thanks Singingrain123.

Yes, this is all planning for such a long horizon. Who knows where things will be in 5 years indeed! Makes it all the more difficult to decide

Will check out elevenplus.co.uk too.

Thanks for your advice!

Isn't IB instead of A levels rather than gcses? Presumably you will only get one offer in the end.

@LIZS

Isn't IB instead of A levels rather than gcses? Presumably you will only get one offer in the end.

I think you're right LIZS.

I'm not very conversant with the details myself, but AFAIK, the IB diploma itself issued at the same stage as A Levels, so it is a qualification that corresponds to the A Levels.

OTOH, there also appears to be a fundamental difference in the philosophy and approach to teaching/learning, with the 'IB system' apparently more learner-led.

TOGS follows the IB-style Middle Years Programme (MYP) for Y7-9 and then back to GCSE, and then Sixth Form is back to the IB model again.

This is based on some very recent and limited research, so there may be some inaccuracies.

Missed replying to your last point LIZS:

Yes we will only get our highest choice as per our CAF that DD makes the grade for. The dilemma we're struggling with is what to put at the top of our list

Well done for the Kent test.

What score (roughly) did your daughter get?

I have heard of some amazing high scores so if I were you I would check the excel sheet Kent released to see how many students are on and above your child's score. Ofcourse if the school has a set score then if you are in for ooc then you are in!!

Also, don't you need to submit your change around the 10th of December?

If so you may well be best served putting your real preferences first. So you won't know the result for nonsuch by the time you submit any changes.

The only thing I would add if how is the commute for both? Yes I know togs would be awful at first, but I really would consider how travelling from Croydon would be for both schools. In case you do decide to move and your daughter has to do it for a while.

I think 45 mins would be an ok journey but you have to check the safety aspect and also consider the school may offer after school clubs or have weekend commitments for sport - so make sure the journey will be ok at Odd times too.

Good luck!

I went to Nonsuch years ago and a fair number commuted a good distance. I'd personally go with Nonsuch to not have to move, or at least put less pressure on a move, as the commute is doable. However I can't comment on the academics.

Thank you @BendingSpoons. Appreciate your first-hand perspective!

I have two daughters at the first of the two schools you name in your op. I love it. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

@Monochromefox

Well done for the Kent test.

What score (roughly) did your daughter get?

I have heard of some amazing high scores so if I were you I would check the excel sheet Kent released to see how many students are on and above your child's score. Ofcourse if the school has a set score then if you are in for ooc then you are in!!

Also, don't you need to submit your change around the 10th of December?

If so you may well be best served putting your real preferences first. So you won't know the result for nonsuch by the time you submit any changes.

The only thing I would add if how is the commute for both? Yes I know togs would be awful at first, but I really would consider how travelling from Croydon would be for both schools. In case you do decide to move and your daughter has to do it for a while.

I think 45 mins would be an ok journey but you have to check the safety aspect and also consider the school may offer after school clubs or have weekend commitments for sport - so make sure the journey will be ok at Odd times too.

Good luck!

Thank you @Monochromefox. The congratulations are due mainly to DD . She's really taken the whole 11+ thing very well and been patient through some of the dreary parts too!

You're right about scores this year - they are significantly higher than last year. From the KCC stats table, there are possibly well over a hundred 'OOC/Independent' girls who have scored higher than her - good for them! . The corresponding number last year was IIRC in the 80-90 range (I may be off).

I understand that this is a bit of a broad category where In catchment independent school girls are also included, whereas they will not be in consideration for the 35 governors' places, but all in all, the cut-offs are likely to be higher this year.

Which is what makes me a tad apprehensive that last year's cut-offs will be a poor guide to what's likely to happen this year. With her score, DD would have been a shoo-in for TOGS last year, but I'm hoping the cut-off won't rise much higher this year.

We do need to submit our preferences by 10th Dec, so we will be flying blind as far as the Sutton results are concerned, but I feel DD has a decent chance of making the cut for Nonsuch based on her performance in the SGSPTA and other mocks. And that's really at the root of our dilemma - DD has a good chance for both TOGS and Nonsuch, so how do we choose between the two!

Commute-wise, Nonsuch is a manageable commute at 45 mins but I'd want to spare DD that if possible. TOGS will require us to move (we've in Croydon - so commuting to TOGS is out of the question).

@Thethingswedoforlove

I have two daughters at the first of the two schools you name in your op. I love it. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

Thank you @Thethingswedoforlove! I've just PMed you

Just to make an alternative suggestion: why don't you consider Walkington Girls instead? Would the journey time from Croydon not be much more do able than going to Nonsuch? Also, if it makes any difference to you, Wally Girls came out just above Nonsuch in the recent league tables (usually they are the other way around) 🤔

Wallington Girls is an excellent school @Meredusoleil, and they seem to have done very well indeed in the latest league tables (GCSE?).

That's definitely on our priority, and we were only looking at Nonsuch in preference to Wallington because Nonsuch seems to be consistently higher in the league tables, so we were'nt sure if this year was a blip.

That said, the whole concept of league tables as a basis for school selection is imperfect in the first place, so I sometimes feel we're just going by gut feel - particularly hard to do when we've not been able to visit schools in person this year .

@AyesMum

Wallington Girls is an excellent school *@Meredusoleil*, and they seem to have done very well indeed in the latest league tables (GCSE?).

That's definitely on our priority, and we were only looking at Nonsuch in preference to Wallington because Nonsuch seems to be consistently higher in the league tables, so we were'nt sure if this year was a blip.

That said, the whole concept of league tables as a basis for school selection is imperfect in the first place, so I sometimes feel we're just going by gut feel - particularly hard to do when we've not been able to visit schools in person this year .

I went to visit both Nonsuch and Wallington Girls last year. I liked both and found Wally Girls to have a more relaxed vibe about it. I personally preferred Nonsuch for other reasons. My dd really liked Wally Girls and didn't get to visit Nonsuch, apart from to sit the 2 stage SET exams.

Sorry, I can only comment on TOGS as I do not know the other school. TOGS is a very friendly school where the girls genuinely seem very contented and pasterol support is excellent. The girls are all striving to do their very best, but making mistakes and trying out different things is encouraged. The girls become very independent learners with lifelong learning skills. I don’t know anyone with a bad word to say about this school.

The 30 places they have for OOC - the score last year was 400 I believe. Looking at 2020 scores it could be quite a bit more than this.. even 410/415? Possibly. All a guess!

My info is outdated here, but an academic girl will should do well at both Wally Girls and Nonsuch. I'm not sure what the differences are in the league tables, but you are talking about many girls getting pretty much all top grades across the board.

If you are open to moving then great, but I don't know that the difference in league tables is that significant. In my head they are broadly comparable schools.

I don't think I'd make the commute to cheam from Croydon tbh when you have Wally girls so close. There's a high volume of homework so that extra time saved on commute is a real benefit. Where in Croydon are you - if you are walking distance to west Croydon then it's obviously easier than being up in south Croydon and needing to add a bus into the equation.

Yes I would agree that there is no meaningful difference between Nonsuch and Wally Girls if the 45min commute is the main factor.

I would personally choose TOGS over either of the Sutton grammars, but do you want to move to the Tonbridge area? What impact would it have on the rest of the family?

I would seriously consider WHSG - DD is in year 9 there now and I've been very impressed with the school, and how it's handled all sorts of things including access to technology over lockdown etc. It's part of the same academy trust as Nonsuch, the GIrls Learning Trust, along with Carshalton Girls (not selective).

There are a fair number of girls in DD's form who commute in from Croydon - Sandilands area - by tram/train/bus.

DD's friend who was at Nonsuch has been removed from the school due to bullying and their poor support for her SEN.

One of my nieces left Wallington girls due to the sheer amount of bullying they chose to ignore, & another left as the school refused to help with her Aspergers.