Career options and A levels: Maths, economics, geography, art or maths, economics, physics, art?

[IHeartNiles]

DD excellent at maths. Predicted mostly 9s at GCSE. Likely to veer towards finance industry based on her interests and the career suitability tool. She’s very good at recognising patterns and solving puzzles. She’s good with people and socially popular.

She loves art and being able to switch off into a creative subject so really wants that as her 4th.

She hates reading. Does not get any enjoyment from it. Has found history a total chore. Has always done well in and enjoys geography and physics, finds other sciences easy but not interested in them or any science based jobs. She attended a session on economics A Level and thought it looked very interesting. Seems quite fixed on this and maths.

What do you think would be the better options? Ideally she would do maths, physics, geography and economics but she thinks that would be a slog and she loves art. She’s not a particularly talented artist but good enough and will probably get an 8/9.

With Maths, Physics & Art she could become an architect.

When I re read your OP, I realised you are suggesting

Maths, Economics, Art as definite, and then choosing between Physics & Geography.

Not doing Physics rules out Physics and maybe Engineering & Architecture?
Not doing Geography rules out Geography?

Has she looked at the Art syllabus and decided she definitely wants to do it rather than leave it as a hobby?

If she loves art then have that as a fourth. I hear it is a lot of time consuming work, though.
A levels are not just a means to an end, and she should do something just because she enjoys it. With three other A levels she has her finance based options covered.
My daughter is leaning heavily towards creative arts for her future, but loves science, so is taking biology A level simply out of interest (her others being art, history and psychology).

@TeenPlusTwenties

With Maths, Physics & Art she could become an architect.

When I re read your OP, I realised you are suggesting

Maths, Economics, Art as definite, and then choosing between Physics & Geography.

Not doing Physics rules out Physics and maybe Engineering & Architecture?
Not doing Geography rules out Geography?

Has she looked at the Art syllabus and decided she definitely wants to do it rather than leave it as a hobby?

Thanks, yes she seems to be wondering georgraphy or physics. She’s looked at art and it’s a lot of work but she enjoys it so less of a slog than academia IYSWIM. She finds geography more interesting than physics but finds physics easier, probably as it’s so connected to maths.

@Pipandmum

If she loves art then have that as a fourth. I hear it is a lot of time consuming work, though. A levels are not just a means to an end, and she should do something just because she enjoys it. With three other A levels she has her finance based options covered. My daughter is leaning heavily towards creative arts for her future, but loves science, so is taking biology A level simply out of interest (her others being art, history and psychology).

Yes I agree, it’s important to go with your interests rather than just a career focus.

Geography gets more essay based at a level - I'd recommend she looks at past exam papers, as she may find it has aspects that require more reading and writing than she'd like. If she's doing 4, physics and maths combine well and if she's very good at them, she will probably find that physics is a relatively easy course as it's quite maths based and less content heavy than other sciences.

@Mover437

Geography gets more essay based at a level - I'd recommend she looks at past exam papers, as she may find it has aspects that require more reading and writing than she'd like. If she's doing 4, physics and maths combine well and if she's very good at them, she will probably find that physics is a relatively easy course as it's quite maths based and less content heavy than other sciences.

Good thinking -thanks. I think she enjoys geography because it’s so diverse. She’s strangely good at essay writing and even English - despite lack of reading - but would hate to do lots of essay based subjects.

I used to work in finance, there's more with a physics than geography background but don't think it would make a vast difference. Though environmental issues are leading to more work so geography might be on the up if she's interested in that side of it. I would go with interests. Further Maths is also a common one taken but again would go with interests. I would look up university course requirements, if she say wants economics check where she wants doesn't prefer further maths as economics has become very mathematical.

Maths and Economics is great for Economics. Geography goes well with these. Further maths as a 4th could be useful. Nowhere will expect a 4th so I assume 4 is trying the subjects out and not what she will do for the bulk of y12/13?

Art and Maths and Physics are great for Architecture. Swap Geography for Art and she could still look at Architecture. However adding Geography would be good for Civil Engineering with a bias towards Environmental Engineering.

Anything with Maths and Physics leads to a wide variety of financial roles and management would be a great option with an Economics A level added in. Look at courses at Bath for example.

Employees don’t necessarily have to write essays but lots of people need to write reports and present their findings at work. She could also look at Law. Has she expressed any interest in what people do at work? What are her hobbies?

Do physics, simply because the country needs more (especially female) physicists.

Maths, Physics and either FM or economics. Keep art as a hobby.

I thought I'd share my own personal experience rather than just give advice. Hope it helps your daughter.

I started my A Level career doing Maths, English Lit, Chemistry and Biology. I swapped from English Lit to Physics after about a month because the workload was high (although I was quite lazy at 16 if I'm honest!).

If you were a really good mathematician (very strong A* candidate) then physics was pretty straightforward and much less work something unrelated. If you were a less strong mathematician then you didn't really seem to get the same benefit. I knew much less physics than some of my classmates that struggled to get a C, i coasted on the strength of my maths.

I went on to do a maths degree and trained with one of the big four. Either of the sets of A Levels would be acceptable for the big four. Lots of my peers had economics degrees and a few had accountancy and finance degrees, but it didn't really give much benefit.

Finally, one of my peers had left investment banking to train as an accountant. It may have changed (it's not a sector I work with) but it the noughties it was easier to progress up through investment banking with an accountancy qualification.

My DD has a friend who is an investment banker and he has PPE from Oxford. They just like really bright people.

Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. She could definitely do well at further maths but she prefers a broader range.

Sadly our post 16 education system isn't set up for a broad range. If she is set on finance then Art is a bit of a silly choice at A level.

@MrsMiaWallis

Sadly our post 16 education system isn't set up for a broad range. If she is set on finance then Art is a bit of a silly choice at A level.

She’s be doing 3 academic and art as a 4th.

Art, maths and physics also works for things like design engineering (we know people who have gone to Sheffield, and to Imperial/Royal Collage of Art).

If she does either physics or economics she should do maths.

Economics at A Level is an essay based subject. There is no avoiding the fact that the majority of marks come from extended writing and evaluation.

Lots do Economics at uni without it at A level and it’s the maths you need for the degree.

Those who aren’t good writers do struggle at A Level even if their maths is good and they are interested in the material.

Why 4? It's totally unnecessary particularly if the 4th is Art.

She will do maths, it’s her strongest subject, she’s an all rounder so writes very well too. The school start with 4 with an option to drop one.

Its fine to do four if they can be done without causing too much pressure. Particularly if you are doing STEM, where there can be a lot of overlap or if you are taking a mix with the aim of keeping options open.

Schools soon tell you if a pupil is struggling. It also gives your daughter a chance to drop a subject if she finds she is not enjoying it. For example A level art might be quite different, and it is not unknown for people to realise they don't like economics.

@IHeartNiles

She will do maths, it’s her strongest subject, she’s an all rounder so writes very well too. The school start with 4 with an option to drop one.

Our very academic independent doesn't encourage this. A level Art is an insane amount of work. Good luck to her!

@MrsMiaWallis yes hers is too. They all seem to do well, many go down to three. I worked part time when I did ALevels and managed to get all A grades.

We recruit with a strong preference for an Economics degree. At no point would we ever think an Economics A level came close. If a candidate had a less numerate degree we might be reassured by an A level in Maths - but usually the A level choice is not given much weight when we make a decision. I’d suggest she does Maths and then tries to pick subjects she’s interested in.

[quote IHeartNiles]@MrsMiaWallis yes hers is too. They all seem to do well, many go down to three. I worked part time when I did ALevels and managed to get all A grades.[/quote]
DD’s old (very academic) school were quite strict about 3 a-levels only. They changed from 4 to 3 within the last 5 years and said that the workload for each subject had increased dramatically. So not sure comparing what you did 20 odd years ago is of any use. The only 4th choice they allow is further maths.

The head is very firm in his opinion that 4 a-levels is of no benefit and actually damages a-level attainment for a significant number. This is a school with of lot of students going to Oxbridge, Durham, etc so he’s getting something right.

Degree choice is obviously more important. However the A level economics syllabus has improved dramatically. The old one was very dull, and Universities tended not to see it as a particular advantage when selecting students for economics degrees. They seem to luke the new one more. Some level of economic literacy is an advantage in many jobs.

Academic schools have always taken different lines on the 3/4 A level thing. There is no harm starting with 4 and keeping an open mind. A lot will depend on the child. How bright they are, how perfectionist they are, how they handle stress, what else they have going on. Obviously they don't 'need' four, but extra learning rarely goes amiss. Who knows when that art A level might give her the edge when looking for a job or an introduction to a life long interest.