Grammar vs Private

[Motherly00]

Hello

Wanted to get advice from parents who have been offered a place at Grammar, but also still waiting on Private places. In a similar position, and yet struggling to come to a decision. Assume levels of education are the same, might it be the facilities, that win through? Distance in our case is the same. Odd, as assumed we would go grammar (as its free) but there's a niggling feeling Private might win out on some aspects. Would love any guidance for those who have had this query.

My son is doing his A levels at a grammar school. His prospects - and and those of all his schoolmates - look fantastic. They are intelligent, funny, motivated and confident young men.

What could spending £125k on his education have done? Maybe it would have bought them a few good contacts - but then also some skewed values as they watched their fellow pupils live the life of luxury.

Finding £18k a year for your child's education makes you a prisoner of your job. Unless you are very wealthy, you don't know that your position in your 40s will be the same as in your 50s (especially for women). When cuts come, they always go for the big salaries first. So there is a safety in choosing grammar too.

You could also move to private school at any time. They'll always take your money but grammar you pretty much have to start in Y7. So maybe start at grammar and then move to private if you don't like how it's going.

not strictly true that "they'll always take your money" - any decent independent school is oversubscribed and will only ever admit at its defined entry points or from a waiting list of kids who did well in the exam.

there's no definitive answer on this one. depends on the grammar and the independent. depends on you as a family.

FWIW we chose independent. they're both happy. I would make the same choice again: ds has been forced to play D team rugby and football and even in the 6th form has to do some sport. he had a wide choice of GCSE and A level options. He has specialist teachers and has been kept firmly on track. He is now becoming a more senior member of the school commnity and its great to see him growing into the role.

dd has been offered top level sports coaching that has transformed her into a county netballer. she's been encouraged to try things outside her comfort zone and is now involved in orchestra/d of e because individual teachers got her interested. she's also getting a lot of help with choosing A level subjects/possible careers right now too.

no idea if it would have been the same in a grammar. but we have 2 happy kids and that's all we're aiming for.

wish you luck in your decision.

For most people, independent school fees mean some level of sacrifice, especially if they have more than one child.

My view is that if you have a state grammar, or a Comp which is very high achieving, unless you are rolling in cash and the fees really won’t make any difference, then go for the state grammar option. Many of the independents ‘extras’ are lovely and certainly give a more comfortable experience, but are basically extras….and very expensive if you can get a fantastic academic education for free.

One of the things people are often paying for in reality, is to not mix with what are perceived with as ‘difficult’ families or children. People do t tend to voice, that but it’s a genuine reason for many people. If you look at state grammar schools, the kids there are overwhelmingly middle class and using a FSM measure, have few families who are really financially struggling. Yes, usually there will be less really really high earners, but the typical grammar school family parents will be well-educated professionals who value education.

Sometimes I think some people don’t realise quite what state grammar school cohorts are like…especially if their kids have been privately educated all the way through. Some people have an image of all state schools as somehow being sink schools. But as a PP has said, their child is at a Grammar School and the 6th Form is full of bright boys with a great future ahead of them. This is also the case in many high achieving Comps across the country too. And when the independent school students reach Uni and start mixing with state school kids too, they realise that very often those families live in similar houses and similar areas and do similar jobs to their families too……there is less of a divide than people think. The middle classes have similar values and aspirations and their kids go o to do similarly well, regardless of the precise school their kids go to.

Often I think fear drives decision maki g about schools. As parents, we often value education highly and worry about doing the wrong thing and making the wrong choices. Sometimes there are big differences in the choices available and it can genuinely be a terrible Comp or an amazing independent school. More often, it’s a a choice between a middling state Comp and a middling independent school.

But here we are looking at choosing between 2 amazing options….high flying state grammars or top independents. You basically can’t go wrong. So with that choice, unless the fees won’t make a difference, it really does seem the logical choice (and I know it’s not always a logical decision and heart can take over) to go for the amazing free option if you’ve been lucky enough to get that option, and to use the money you save to keep your family having the great lifestyle they have already had (presumably, if school fees are even an option) along with putting something aside for their adult life such as house deposits.

That’s how I’d see it anyway. Realise people jump in both directions.

We went Private in this situation due to size of school and classes, location and facilities
You have to look at the schools individually rather than whether Grammar or Private is better

I always think private school kids are way more confident than state-educate children. Also private schools can be amazing for networking.

Just to add - DD1 went to state comprehensive and got 4xA* in her A Levels and is now at one of the very best unis. Don't write off state comprehensives.

Fees in London for day private are £25k plus…

The idea that private school kids are more confident is an easy, lazy narrative. I think they often produce kids who are in fact highly arrogant. Most worryingly is the effect on those kids who don’t fit the confident narrative, who are quietly asked to leave. They can also be a hotbed of mental health issues.

I say this as a product of one of the highly sought after London day schools who thrived and was exceptionally happy. But I look at a lot of my peers who found it represssive and overwhelming.

Isn't this a zombie thread?

@MoonahStone

Isn't this a zombie thread?

Not any more it would seem.

The real benefit of private schools is simply that they consistently churn out people who look, sound, conduct themselves, etc in the manner of, y'know, the ruling class.

Just look at the prime ministers and party leaders in my adult lifetime.

The state educated ones - Major, Hague, IDS, Howard, Brown, Miliband, May, Starmer.

The privately educated ones - Blair, Cameron, Johnson [yeah, OK, and Corby, but he's the exception to many rules].

Which of the above two groups was it trivially easy for the press to dismiss as, in some very vague sense 'not officer material'? Even the state educated leaders who were very strong public speakers in the HoC [e.g. Hague, Brown, Miliband] seemed 'wrong' somehow in TV interviews etc - just, one way or another, not what the public expected from their leaders.

It surely all comes down to affordability?

At the time DD sat the 11+ we didn’t have the money for private school. A month later we did (inheritance). I can remember standing in the private school she now attends asking myself if what was available here £25k per annum better than the grammar. My answer was very different both before and after getting the money.

Of course it’s not £25k a year “better”. There’s smaller class sizes, better facilities and more extracurricular but the standards of education are comparable (in fact, the grammar gets better exam results). But when the money was effectively taken out of the equation then we all felt the independent was the school of best fit.

I would have preferred her to go to the grammar than some of the other independent schools we saw though. It’s about working out which school is best fit for your specific child.

"The idea that private school kids are more confident is an easy, lazy narrative. I think they often produce kids who are in fact highly arrogant"

the most hilarious comment I've ever read. Condemning one stereo type while trumpeting another!

There is no one size fits all answer for this question. It all depends. The variety of schools in this country baffles every parent when it comes to choosing school. To complicate matters further, doing the best for your children involves not only choosing schools but also choosing a lifestyle (including location, type of housing, discretionary spending and so on) for the family that keeps everyone happy as that breeds happiness and success.

We have paid the deposit for the independent school which is about half and hour away from home and DD is expected to do the journal by herself. Last week we suddenly got a very late offer from a top grammar school which is very far away and we would have to relocate if accepted. We haven't got much time let to decide as DD was just back from the residential trip on Saturday.
It's not an easy decision as we got a partial bursary from the independent school and it's closer without relocating. On the other hand, the top grammar school is free and very competitive to get in. We didn't even think we would get in so we accepted the independent school in March. I also have concerns that DD might sit at the bottom of class which won't be a pleasant feeling for her.

Anyone in the similar boat?

@AlwaysCheck I would suggest starting a new thread for your question, as you've asked a new question on a thread from 2020 which was last responded to in October 2021. You're likely to get more pertinent answers on a new thread.

My experience is of having a DS in a grammar and friends with same age DS in private so take that for what it is.. As far as I can see, DS grammar has a higher academic level (it's one of the top GS in country) BUT the huge advantage of the private school is that if it is one of the small-medium sized ones, not only are the class sizes smaller (advantageous to the non high academic fliers) but the opportunities are greater. EG. almost guaranteed to get a place on any residential trip whereas they are pulled out of a hat at the GS. Similarly everyone has the chance to compete for the school in sports (it's pretty much expected that everyone participates in rugby, cricket etc so that there are enough for the team) So some students who may not feel confident to try/participate in a larger school can get that opportunity.
HTH and good luck with your choice!

DS is at a grammar. He is part of 4 different bands, not including the jazz trio he put together with some friends; he often practises music at lunchtime, but can also go out to spend time in the school field/ copse with friends. He has had the chance to learn fencing. He also takes part in inter house sports competitions (he prefers the music to the sport). It has been great for him.

His best friend has free school meals and I really like that the school "looks like Britain", as Louis Theroux said when discussing his decision to choose a state school for his kids.

He is also predicted to be in line for a top Uni place (depends a bit on him working though).

The school has also supported him through a SEN diagnosis...