MFL verbs

[DoingItForTheKid]

Do students no longer learn verbs by rote e.g. I sing, you sing, he/she sings and so on...

I used to teach conjugation, but seriously kids would struggle to grasp what we were learning and why.

In the end I just stuck with I, he/she and we, maybe they. Used to try to teach Aller in French as it's sooo irregular, but they didn't really get it. No need to know vous or ihr forms for GCSE.

whaaat?
how can they be doing GCSE and not know vous/ihr??

You could easily get a good grade at GCSE German without using ihr, yes for sure. I doubt if ihr appears in any of the translations. I will check tho.

ok have looked through reading and writing paper 2018 and can't see a use of "ihr". Sie is used for formal you, but there was no need to know what it meant of conjugate it. No need for "you" in the translation into German. Sorry. I mean I would teach the meaning of the word for receptive skills, but no, no need to write "ihr werdet schwimmen gehen."

I remember DCs doing GCSE languages and being quite shocked, it seemed completely formulaic. I couldn't see how it was going to help them communicate independently at all.

I taught for nearly 10 years in run of the mill secondary schools. Probably about 25% of a top set would understand conjugation. As for everyone else, no chance. They didnt seem to be able to comprehend that we also have the same verbs in English (although often ours are a bit easier to conjugate for learners of english). I tried all sort of tactics for the teaching of it! The trouble is, when you can look something up on the internet in 10 seconds instead of a reference book, dictionary, verb book (or god forbid you've learnt it off by heart) they will take the easiest option. Its partly why I left teaching and why teaching mfl is an uphill struggle these days and I just could not find it enjoyable as it was so hard to get the kids to progress. Its funny because even my own friends from school who would admit themselves that they didnt like languages or found them hard can still recite the verb etre off by heart nearly 30 years later and could tell me what it means, same goes for my own dad who is now 70 and by his admission terrible at languages. So what's going wrong?

@StillWeRise

I remember DCs doing GCSE languages and being quite shocked, it seemed completely formulaic. I couldn't see how it was going to help them communicate independently at all.

Was that more than two years ago? The spec is very different now and much better.

You do need to ask a question in the speaking exam but if you are not confident, you can simply use "wie findest du xxx?" so you just need to be confident with that.

No need to know vous or ihr forms for GCSE.

Really?!!!

That is quite shocking.

Honestly I don't know why it is shocking.

Vous you will see in a French exam, but only in receptive tasks, so it's useful to know what it means but not essential. I highly doubt it would appear in a translation, these tend to use first and third person. It would be really difficult even to work it into a written piece. It's good practice to use he/she and we - so, talking about hobbies, write about what your brother enjoys and what you and your friends do (we). This shows your knowledge.

Ihr - well, the only time you use that is when you are talking to a group of people you know - and talking to all of them. So as a teacher, you might say to a class "this week you will be learning about X" but otherwise, no, how would you work it into an essay?

You have to pick and choose what you learn. Adjective endings after certain prepositions in German - yes. Use of the genitive? I never taught it, no need. You can certainly get a 9 at GCSE without using ihr or genitive or the subjunctive in reported speech.

But it's so basic.

@Ellmau

But it's so basic.

MFL GCSEs are very basic. Higher level is still only A2-B1 on CEFR so most continental kids probably have that standard of at least 1 foreign language if not 2 at 12.

DD got an 8 in GCSE French and did not really grasp the verb endings. I did however explain it to her and taught her a few of the most common irregular verbs. She said it helped. What I did notice is that her vocab was very extensive. Back in the day, I knew the grammar inside out but all I could talk or write about was pointless stuff like playing in the park or helping with the housework. DD could talk about her career aspirations and social media, albeit with slightly ropey grammar. That would have been A Level in the olden days.

The thing is the vocabulary can be easily slotted in, learnt when necessary. If you have no understanding of the grammar how are you going to communicate anything unfamiliar?
My 2nd hand experience was more than 2 years ago.
My 1st hand experience was of O levels.

Stillwerise the GCSE is better now, when there were controlled assessments students would learn passages by rote and needed no idea really of what they meant.

At least now they have to have the skill to manipulate languages and create written pieces (and to some extent spoken pieces) themselves in the exam.

I hope no student I taught for GCSE had "no understanding of the grammar". Where did I say that? But as a teacher, you have to pick and choose what you cover. No need to teach endless conjugations of verbs when the student will only need three forms. No need to teach the pluperfect tense. No need (as I said) to cover the fact that reported speech in German (he said that he was not happy) requires the subjunctive. That's an A-level skill.

But yes, students achieving well at GCSE will have a good grasp of three tenses at least, be able to use a range of regular and irregular verbs, will be able to use vocabulary from a range of topics including their future career, the environment and what sports, films and music they like, be able to use a range of conjunctions, a range of modifiers, know that some prepositions will change cases (in German!). Plenty of that is about grammar!

Still seems a bit crazy not to learn all the parts of a verb - what happens when they (admittedly not that many now.........) move to A Level.

Can't imagine taking Maths and only needed to add, subtract and divide but not multiply!

Separately, I reach dizzy heights yesterday as my stubborn and unkeen son actually told my OH that I managed to teach him about French verbs and adjectives quite clearly last night - I shall float around on that for months to come!

Well as you rightly say, vanishingly small numbers of students do A level MFL, sadly. DD was one of two students in her year doing A level MFL, after about 60 took GCSE.

Well done to you and your DS for a linguistic breakthrough!

Surely tho you must see that there are things you will teach at A level that you won't learn at GCSE? Sometimes that will be completely new things but most often in MFL it will be extensions of previous learning.

I don't think you can compare the use of the ihr form in German to multiplying in maths. Hard to do much maths at all without multiplying. Very difficult to use the ihr form even in A-level German.

I think this is interesting, as I really truly believe teaching has moved on massively since I was at school. It's so much more accessible and engaging. I sat there as a 12yo reciting ich spiele, du spielst etc ; I'm not sure that's the best way to engage someone in learning and speaking and writing German.