When to begin preparing for 11+ grammar? Should I hire a tutor? What are the alternatives?

[helidad]

We're based in London and our DS is currently at an independent prep school. The teachers seem able but despite the fees, I'm getting concerned the focus in year 5 is really on entry to independent senior schools (understandably) and that doesn't always mean following the national curriculum.

We may apply to some independent seniors but I'm increasingly thinking grammar might be the best way forward if we can get a place! DS is able and while I'm convinced 90%+ of his year are being privately tutored, we haven't felt it necessary...until now!

I know next to nothing about grammar school entry. We're looking at QE Barnet and a few others. All of the London grammars appear to be hyper competitive. So for any parents who have been through the process (even if you're outside of London), I'd love to hear:

1. when you really started preparing for 11+
2. if you hired a tutor, how did you know they had the relevant skills!
3. has ANYONE had success without hiring a tutor?
4. are there (preferably) cheaper alternatives that you'd recommend.

I'm concerned about reasoning in particular but tbh, English could do with some work too based on recent reports!

Thank you in advance!

OP, to ease you in and identify gaps, Bond (OUP) has some online material and tests. You can sign up to a minimum of 3 months (something like £6 a month I think). This is unlikely to be enough on its own though - just something to start with in early Year 5 - we found Bond on the easier side. Then you can use other resources, CGP is one we liked, to help fill any gaps.

I also second the PP who mentioned the Manchester Grammar past papers, which are available on their website, for when it's time to do more challenging past papers, probably not until mid-Year 5. Also the Primary Maths Challenge is worth a look.

For my DS we used a national chain of tutors from September Year 5 (80 minutes a week) but the work ramped up rapidly from January. I would not recommend that approach as a lot of it was computer based then they dumped a lot of past papers on us. We also used CGP books. Too late in the day I heard about a sort of 11+ exam establishment that is practically a feeder for the grammars and is very specific about what it teaches, plus all the relevant exam techniques. My DD went there and we were much more confident that we were in safe hands. I wish we’d have found it earlier. £35 for two hours a week (not London!) in term time and money well spent. We could have done it ourselves I suppose but you need to know what specific question types will be asked. I had no qualms about farming the job out to someone else. It goes beyond a financial divide as whatabout says, knowledge and motivation plays a big part.

@whataboutbob - interesting, same in our area of South East London, the properly rich and professional City jobs are still going for selective independent schools over the superselective grammars. It is the squeezed middle (public sector, NHS doctors, teachers etc) and Asian families mainly going for the grammars. What surprised me the most was that quite a few friends who had been to grammar themselves but made it in the City did not send their kids to the grammars and not because they didn’t get in.

@NobleElephantheThird I think it’s definitely a pattern, in London at least. I have to say it probably worked in our favour as DS was out of area and got in on the waiting list. If all kids had taken their place and not gone to independents, he probably wouldn’t have got a place. The wealthy probably make the calculation that the added value of a good independent will surpass a grammar.

Yes, and for some private school can be a bit of a status symbol to show how well you're doing.

@whataboutbob and @nobleElephantheThird Interesting. I really don't get that that's the way in my part of London. I mean the wealthy don't even go to day indies, they are going for boarding schools (specific ones). I know many that got places at selective (not only selective in name) indies but turned them down for grammar schools. I know of course many that also never even considered grammar schools as their DCs were already in a good indie.

We are by no way wealthy but had the money put aside for all 7 years. We preferred the grammar because of being more diverse (yes, I know it is not socially diverse compared to the local comp but certainly from an ethnical perspective and definitely in all senses compared to the selective indie). But most importantly, DC preferred the grammar due to the diversity. I know many that chose the grammar over the (selective and super popular) indie and not because of money. We can instead give DC a deposit for the first flat/House without DC having a less good education. Plus DC will get to make friends with a more diverse cohort. It's a win-win situation.

In terms of time spent tutoring, because we started so late (June of Y5), I think DD was doing more like 3 or more hours a week. 1 hour with the tutor, but then she would have to do a couple of practice papers during the week to go over with the tutor. These were 50 minutes at least, but often longer as she would do the extra questions when she'd run out of time, and then go back and try the ones she'd got wrong again. And that was pretty light tutoring as far as I know. It was fine in lockdown and summer holidays but felt pretty intensive once school started again. Luckily her exam was early so only needed to do both for a month or so.

Thanks so much for all the help - not easy! I'll digest this weekend but really appreciate the notes on tutoring and resources you all found helpful.

@Sue2rescue and @Wigeon, thanks especially for your very comprehensive replies!

Onwards and upwards.

My daughter is in year 9 at a Sutton grammar without tutoring, my year 6 son has passed the first stage test for the Sutton grammars without tutoring too (second stage is happening next weekend).

In year 4 we concentrated on times tables, that was about it.
Year 5 had various things to practise at home - SPAG, comprehension, maths word problems, usually 3-4 times a week for about 30 minutes.

Over the summer (and this term, as the test was delayed) we used past papers, and online mocks, mostly to practise answering at the right sort of speed. (In spite of this, son came out of his English test and announced he only used about half the time available ).

It might depend on your test format though - Sutton grammars are purely maths and English based, there's no VR or NVR papers.

RueDeWakening. That is tutoring. You just didn't pay for it!

We hired a tutor as we work full time and wanted the weekends to have fun with our children. They were also more likely to agree to be taught by someone else!