Further maths

[Candleabra]

Is further maths an acceptable 3rd a level or does it have to be a fourth? Thinking maths, FM, comp science.
The college are fine with those 3 a levels only, and I can't find anything in the uni admissions to say that it's not a good combo. But loads of people we've spoken to (including teachers at other sixth forms) have said there's no way their college would allow those a levels and they're so narrow it only really counts as two.
Definitely focussed on a maths degree.
Any advice?

Back when there were AS levels it was quite common to take it as a 4th, because everyone took 4 subjects for Y12 anyway. Now that they’ve been binned there’s a definite mix of people taking it as a 4th, and people only doing 3 with FM as one of them.

If he wants to do maths, then Maths, FM and Comp Sci would be a good combination. It’s usually courses like medicine that would want more variety.

The normal issue is a student taking 3 then finding the further maths too hard and being unable to drop it.

He could add an EPQ?

I see, that's good news, thanks very much for replying. I think an EPQ is an option at the college, though no idea what the work entails. I've heard people be a bit sniffy about EOQs too. Though, it's hard to know who to listen to, maybe you can have too much advice!

At DS2's school they originally said for his year (he is yr 13) that FM would be one of three (students are only doing three now). But in fact apparently of the six ppl doing FM, all but one do three other A levels. That's cos they want to and are super bright tho (DS2's mate is predicted A A A* A). The lad who is doing three (M, FM and Physics I think) is fine.

Mate of DS2's did Maths, FM and PE two years ago and is happily doing maths at Bath so it didn't cause him an issue.

I think it is becoming less common to treat FM as an extra. Tho I guess if you love maths and it comes easy then M, FM and xyz A level is perhaps a lighter option workwise? Never easy tho!

Quite the reverse. If your child wants to do maths at uni, doing further maths willBe a huge asset. Even if you want to do something like economics. My nephew is a cam wife doing economics, having done maths, further maths and history. If your child is capable go for it!

My DD did maths, further maths, physics and chemistry (to AS) to follow maths at Durham.

Similar to Ds

Maths
FM
Economics
Computer science or Physics

Trying to work out what’s better of last two for IT / tech career

He also wants to add CS EPQ

I didn’t study in U.K. so getting head around it

DD did that. She's at Durham studying maths now.
Friend in the year above got into Oxbridge with that combination too (again to read maths)

The only thing I'd ask is have they any idea what they want to do at uni or beyond. Unless they're certain they want to do maths or computers it's quite limited what they can do.

@scentedgeranium

Quite the reverse. If your child wants to do maths at uni, doing further maths willBe a huge asset. Even if you want to do something like economics. My nephew is a cam wife doing economics, having done maths, further maths and history. If your child is capable go for it!

Well yes that's what I thought! The negative feedback (on doing just maths, FM + other) seems to come from the perceived overlap and hence the advice that it isn't truly a separate subject. Good to know it's a perfectly valid set of a levels, and a good route to do a maths degree.

@Witchend

DD did that. She's at Durham studying maths now. Friend in the year above got into Oxbridge with that combination too (again to read maths)

The only thing I'd ask is have they any idea what they want to do at uni or beyond. Unless they're certain they want to do maths or computers it's quite limited what they can do.

She's very happy to limit her options! If there was a way to do a 3rd maths a level then that would suit even better....

My ds did maths, further maths & physics A levels. He’s going to Imperial next year to do physics. If your ds is considering a maths/physics/compsci degree it makes perfect sense to do maths and further maths.

Sorry! Your dd!

@Candleabra I was the same.
I did maths, further maths and physics. I said it was maths, more maths and practical maths.

Has she considered Physics? I mostly just passed by with my maths knowledge and a small amount of work. I don't know if you can still do that.

I'd like her to do physics really. She's adamant she won't, nor chemistry. It's a shame as they were both subjects she enjoyed this time last year . I think the work to do the separate sciences has been so rushed, plus lockdown, plus some less than inspiring teachers has driven away the science love.

My only reservation would be if she decides that she doesn't want to apply for maths or computer sciences at uni - she has pretty completely much narrowed down any choice post 18.

Is further maths more difficult than A level maths or is it the case of more maths rather than more difficult maths?. My dd is considering taking FM as a fourth A level but isconcerned about the workload. Some say that there is an overlap so less time is needed for FM than for other A levels, while others say it is very difficult and time consuming. Considering that is it taken by capable students who is predicted 8/9 at maths gcse, how difficult is it?

I assumed it was harder than a level maths, considering you need at least an 8 in maths to take it. I suppose if you're very good at maths it seems easier. (that sounds stupid, but I don't know how else to put it!)

My DS did Maths, further Maths and French. He only ever wanted to Maths at university so it made him happy. He's now at Sussex.

Further maths is harder than single maths.
If you're not going for A/A* in single maths then don't try it.
That's the reason why it's usually taken as a fourth subject. Simply that a fair number of 8 or even 9 grade students find it impossible, so drop it. I started in a class of 10, dropped down to 5.they were all students who were getting 80%+ in single maths papers, but half couldn't cope with the step up.

I didn't really notice the jump from single to further in pure, but I did find the jump to university maths hard.
On the other hand on the mechanics side, I found the step up to further really difficult, but when I'd mastered that I didn't notice the step up at university.
I had friends who were the other way round and found uni mechanics impossible and the pure dead obvious.

*Further maths is harder than single maths.
If you're not going for A/A in single maths then don't try it.
@Witchend I assumed it must be. But then I wondered why so many people had said it would only be good as a fourth a level - essentially it wasn't counted as an a level in its own right.
All the advice here has been really helpful, thank you.

But it's hard to say if you are going for A/A in a single math A level, when you are choosing the subjects not having sat GCSEs yet. Yes, there are predicted grades and the interim assesments, but it is a subjective and relative to a particular cohort- in high achieving schools where most gain 7-9 you might feel like you are "average" if you are getting an 8, but in other setting an 8 would be viewed differently. Also 50% gain an A or A in further maths a level, so while it is representative of those who choose this subject (enjoying and considered good at maths), it is still a large proportion compared to other subjects.

Agree, it's a hard call to make especially if there isn't the option to drop FM (if it's the third a level). I think for my daughter she struggled enough to think of another non maths a level she'd be happy to do. She really likes maths! I suppose this is why they will review the offers for 6th form after results day.