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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Hampton 10+ 2020

103 replies

TriTri82 · 01/11/2020 18:44

Is anyone’s DS doing the Hampton 10+ this Saturday? I’m hoping the new lockdown doesn’t affect it. Be good to hear from others in the same boat.

OP posts:
VLCC · 18/11/2020 13:17

Clearly your boy comes from a long line of geniuses then.

Ross11 · 18/11/2020 13:41

@VLCC I have never considered myself as genius since I don't have any big achievement apart from being very academic. Had tiny amount of extra activities hence I hope my kids to have more opportunities to enjoy life.

jor456 · 18/11/2020 14:00

I agree with you @VLCC and I’ve never known a child get into Hampton recently without proper tutoring, often starting in year 3. I laughed in the 11+ interview last year when they said they try and weed out the excessively tutored boys. Very few, if any, bright boys would be able to pass their maths exam without it. Solving simultaneous equations is mandatory and I don’t believe many boys can do that without being taught outside of school!

Mumchumof2 · 18/11/2020 14:26

Also agree with you @VLCC our boy is in a top ability group in a high achieving school. He worked quite hard in the run up to the exam, although we didn’t have a tutor we did the work with him at home and was scoring at least 90% in maths papers and creative writing (his teacher kindly agreed to mark his work) and we didn’t get through. The only way to top what our DS was doing was to get him a tutor. Confused

Mumchumof2 · 18/11/2020 14:31

A lot of children at our school are tutored but it’s all hush hush and the parents never admit to it. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with it as long as the child is happy then extra support is great. What’s funny is no matter when parents tell their children to not talk about it you can always bet they sing like canaries once through the school gates! Love kids 😂

Well done to all the boys who got through, tutored or not aside, they have achieved amazing results and I’m sure the parents have worked hard too Smile

Sunny38 · 18/11/2020 14:57

We didn’t tutor but I am keen on Maths myself and did work through some past papers with my son. I definitely wouldn’t call it tutoring and we only started in the Summer holidays, not Y3! His strongest subject at school is Maths but he still found the paper hard, missed a few Maths questions and definitely can’t solve simultaneous equations (if there were any in the paper). He has a natural interest in reading and a flair for creative writing which we only recently discovered, so perhaps he did better in the writing paper which got him through - who knows?! Hopefully the feedback we all receive will shed some light on what worked and what didn’t but good luck to us all for next year.

Ross11 · 18/11/2020 15:02

I have parents from my son's class asked me whether I tutored him myself in Maths since he was in year 2 and knew algebra. I didn't even ask my son to learn multiplication table, so no.

I have nothing to against tutor, if that's what the child needs. My son has extra help in English. There might be kids that are good in English naturally they don't need any help in it. I know one kid from my son's class that I believe he can pass these exams without any major help both English or Maths. He's so clever, he can joke to the adult about the politics. philosophy, I'm a fan of him too. And I'm sure he doesn't have any tutor since he's from a very big family.

Ross11 · 18/11/2020 15:11

I just google "simultaneous equations" (English isn't for me). I did see them in the past papers? Should the kids know it by now if they want to go for grammar or private? I'm sure it's not in the ks2 curriculum but they're covered in the general revision books for 11+.

allabitboring · 18/11/2020 15:34

When DS got his 10plus place he definitely couldn’t do simultaneous equations and was certainly no maths genius. He did various 11plus exams last year and didn’t know how to do them then either.
For the St Paul’s exam they specifically say simultaneous equations are not tested.
I’d say one of the most important things for any of these exams is to move on when a question is too hard as they are all time pressured. It’s so easy to get stuck on one thing and waste lots of time. They are often not expected to finish all the questions. In fact they told my son that at the start of the 10plus.
He was at a state school and did have a bit of tutoring but the tutor didn’t teach him anything new, was just exam technique really. I could have done it myself but sometimes they work better with others rather than parents!

Ross11 · 18/11/2020 15:44

@allabitboring so probably I downloaded the 13+ for my son to do by mistake. I do remember seeing the simultaneous equations not once.

He finished most of the past papers 5-10 mins early and told me he just had a bit of time to check the answers for the 10+, so the Maths there should be harder than the papers I got.

Sunny38 · 18/11/2020 16:59

@Ross11a 9 year old tackling 13+! Wow. Smart kid no doubt.

VLCC · 19/11/2020 11:14

Without giving the actual problems away that are set in the exam (there are kids sitting the same paper this weekend) there was at least one problem that required simultaneous equations to solve - and that was one of the easier questions. (There are no Hampton past papers published for the 10+ btw, other papers are not much help as v different questions to Hampton).

The arithmetic progression problem was an absolute fiend. It doesn't work if you use the Gauss trick of double counting in reverse order. You need to find a visual proof / technique for solving it - or know the formula. It took me several days of noodling it over to find the visual proof for it (rather than just blindly applying the formula). Gauss came up with his technique at 10 and went on to be called "the Prince of Mathematics". Even he may have struggled with that particular question at 10 years old - unless of course he had been taught the formula, in which case he could have solved it inside the 2 minutes allowed.

My point is that this exam discriminates against certain kids (the un-tutored who naively believed that the test was a fair test of problem solving skills) in favour of those who have been hot housed at home, tutored or go to schools who are familiar with Hampton's exam and thoroughly prepare them before hand. Most of the parents of the boys who sat that exam would have struggled to answer some of those problems from a standing start. Doing so as a 10yo, under exam pressure, means that the kid is either a serial genius (improbable) - or has been taught the appropriate techniques - in which case the actual problem solving part of the test was relatively trivial.

In a way, that is why doing the 10+, and even failing it, is such a valuable exercise. Now we know the score, and will be prepared for next time. Even if I had know all of this 3 months ago, I hope I would not have coached him specifically for the exam (although I probably would have!). My boy now has great mastery of the entire KS2 syllabus, which is a good place to be at the start of yr 5.

Having said all of that it's great to be able to go back to real maths and other study and to focus on learning new material, rather than be thinking about exam technique. Pressure is off now for at least 9 months. Time to be a kid again!

Best of luck to everyone doing the test this weekend, and those having interviews next week.

Ross11 · 19/11/2020 12:38

To be fair, my kid has the curiosity in Maths from early of age.

Visiting a bookstore or a friend's house, he would grab a book in Maths or Science. My son has been reading books in Maths and Science that I don't even understand. With the fact that I'm a scientist and from a grammar school background (yes I do forget the things I learnt from school), it's still pretty impressive to me.

From my point of view, if the kids require a lot of tutor to get into the school, then they might struggle there if they got in. I know a lot of parents still have tutors 6 hours a week for they kids (those are already in Grammar or Private Schools) so they can catch up with schools. I don't want that at all, I want my kids to do other activities that they enjoy outside school time!

TagMeQuick · 19/11/2020 14:39

Ross11's child is not "normal" nor run of the mill. There aren't many who choose to study in such a formalised way so young straight from a text book.

It just so happens someone in my extended family is brilliant at maths with a phd in a more concentrated mathematical subject. He would read a text book from cover to cover the moment he got it no matter what it was, maths, history as a child. He had a thirst to learn.

But having observed many kids at a variety of schools (I went to four myself) and my kids and many other children along the way, I have to say this trait is EXTREMELY rare and to suggest not tutoring to help your child 'catch up' and get into a school is daft.

The extended family member also has obsessive traits like those seen in high profile footballers and athletes. He's able to do repetitive tasks again and again and again without getting bored. It's called hyperfocus.

I'm not sure this is the 'norm' and would therefore dismiss these sorts of kids as few and far between and just ignore them as carrying any weight in a discussion like this.

Ross11 · 19/11/2020 15:14

I think you got my idea wrong. Tutoring is great! But heavily tutoring the kids after they already do a lot of work in school isn't healthy in my opinion.

I will have my child, and my future child (if any), tutored in English, Latin, etc whatever they need help with. No one is good at everything.

Everh0peful · 22/11/2020 08:40

My son is in the 6th form at Hampton. He did v well in GCSEs, mostly 9s and a couple of 8s. He will no doubt do very well in his A’levels and is hoping to go to Oxford and read Physics. But if I had my time again I wouldn’t send him to Hampton. I’d read very closely the comments made by VLCC, because she is right. Plus sides of Hampton, surrounded by lots of v brights boys who all want to do well. Down sides of Hampton, surrounded by lots of v bright boys who all want to do well, it is a pressure cooker. Hampton School is a business, they don’t want much interaction with parents, at Parents Evenings, there are no sports teachers there. The Pastoral Evening was online last week, it automatically timed out after exactly 5 mins. I am paying over £20,000 a year, you think I could talk to a teacher for 10 minutes once a year! The talk by Head of year for Lower Sixth started with ‘I’ve told the boys it isn’t automatic they go through to Upper Sixth’ which was news to me! I must have missed that in the small print. My son did rowing last year - fantastic facilities there - but his school dinners (£6 a meal) were insufficient to feed him and they provide no other means of getting extra food during the day. I work full time and so was make extra pack lunches to supplement the over priced meals. In the 6th form the boys have no choice but to study an AS level, this is on top of the 4 A’levels my son is studying. AS A’levels have been dropped by most schools, but if you are already taking 4 A’levels (you have to if you want to take Further Maths), it’s too much. They are exhausted. So in conclusion, think carefully, they will definitely get the results, but my daughter who is at Oxford now, with just 3 A’levels, had so much more fun in 6th form. Hampton, with its current Head and Deputy Head of Academic, is a tough school and I wish I’d picked a more nurturing school.

Mumchumof2 · 22/11/2020 09:03

Interesting and so helpful @Everh0peful do you have any other schools in mind that you may have considered? I am glad we chose to do the 10+, whilst my DS didn’t pass from the letter we recurved he is on track, and we are now considering going down the tutoring route. He does very well at a local school and I wonder if he would do better being a big fish in a smaller pond so to speak.... we have a younger son who just sat the 7+, and I think he did quite well. Trying to weigh up all of our options before we commit.

Everh0peful · 22/11/2020 09:47

I haven’t looked around other schools in the last seven years, and when the Heads change the school changes a lot. I sort of fell on this when looking for something else! So I am maybe not the best person to ask. I think it depends very much on your son and his personality type. Mine is quite a sensitive and thoughtful and I think it would have been better for him to be in a smaller school that was a bit more nurturing. I don’t know about Reeds but it does sound a more nurturing school.

Ross11 · 23/11/2020 00:55

@Everh0peful Interesting response! Thanks for your insight! I guess it happens to a lot of schools, the ethos change to reflect the current head teacher's view.

Where was your daughter at before she joined Oxford?

Everh0peful · 23/11/2020 06:37

Hi @Ross11, Putney High School. I think it’s a fantastic school, the ethos is upbeat, hardworking for sure, but relaxed and fun. In my opinion they are focused and serious about the things that matter and relaxed about the things that don’t. A friend of mine’s daughter developed serious Anxiety and they couldn’t have been more helpful and supportive. They don’t wear uniform in 6th form, they don’t encourage doing more than 3 A’levels and AS levels and so the girls have lots of free study periods during the day to get their work done so they still have time to fit in extra curricular- sport, dance and music. I really think this is important because they need an outlet from the pressure of A’levels, and they need to have some fun!

Everh0peful · 23/11/2020 06:46

By the way @mumchumof2 my son failed the 10* at Hampton, he had no idea what the word ‘Chorister’ meant - and really struggled with the English paper. He was so behind on English then, 10 is so young for a boy!

Mumchumof2 · 23/11/2020 07:50

Thank you @Everh0peful that is very encouraging, and also given us some food for thought in terms of what we want from any school. I agree it is such a young age, but if anything really good practice!
Always useful to hear the experiences of those already in the system Grin

VLCC · 23/11/2020 11:16

@Everh0peful

My son is in the 6th form at Hampton. He did v well in GCSEs, mostly 9s and a couple of 8s. He will no doubt do very well in his A’levels and is hoping to go to Oxford and read Physics. But if I had my time again I wouldn’t send him to Hampton. I’d read very closely the comments made by VLCC, because she is right. Plus sides of Hampton, surrounded by lots of v brights boys who all want to do well. Down sides of Hampton, surrounded by lots of v bright boys who all want to do well, it is a pressure cooker. Hampton School is a business, they don’t want much interaction with parents, at Parents Evenings, there are no sports teachers there. The Pastoral Evening was online last week, it automatically timed out after exactly 5 mins. I am paying over £20,000 a year, you think I could talk to a teacher for 10 minutes once a year! The talk by Head of year for Lower Sixth started with ‘I’ve told the boys it isn’t automatic they go through to Upper Sixth’ which was news to me! I must have missed that in the small print. My son did rowing last year - fantastic facilities there - but his school dinners (£6 a meal) were insufficient to feed him and they provide no other means of getting extra food during the day. I work full time and so was make extra pack lunches to supplement the over priced meals. In the 6th form the boys have no choice but to study an AS level, this is on top of the 4 A’levels my son is studying. AS A’levels have been dropped by most schools, but if you are already taking 4 A’levels (you have to if you want to take Further Maths), it’s too much. They are exhausted. So in conclusion, think carefully, they will definitely get the results, but my daughter who is at Oxford now, with just 3 A’levels, had so much more fun in 6th form. Hampton, with its current Head and Deputy Head of Academic, is a tough school and I wish I’d picked a more nurturing school.
I worked with a guy who went to St Pauls. I had my eldest boy down for Collet Court at the time, and he talked me out of sending him there.

Apparently St Pauls is also a hot house. The teachers took the view (at least when my friend was there) that they provide excellent teaching, and if a kid has a problem engaging with that, for whatever reason, then that isn't their problem. The teachers don't see it as their job to persuade or cajole their pupils into engaging, and indeed the staff room had a queue of kids outside it each break and lunchtime trying to get their teacher's attention. (It certainly wasn't like that at my school!). So the picture I was given of St Pauls is of a school where the kids are in a perpetual race with each other, even for their teachers attention. Those who fail to engage are basically ignored. Some kids might prosper in that environment, but many do not, certainly my eldest would not have.

The other thought that occurs to me is why is the maths exam at Hampton so incredibly above and beyond the level of Key Stage 2? If they were doing A level maths in 3 years time, then I could understand it, but they aren't. They wont be doing GCSE maths for 5 years after they join. So what the hell are they going to be doing for the first 5 years? Take a look at a GCSE maths paper - it really isn't that exacting. So what are they going to do with these massively tuned up kids for 5 years? There is only so much enrichment you can do.

Add into the mix that Oxbridge could, if they wished, entirely fill their intake each year from a handful of private schools in the UK. Obviously they can't do that, so schools like Westminster, Eton, St Pauls Boys, St Pauls Girls, Hampton, LEH, Winchester etc.. effectively operate a system of internal rationing - limiting the number of their own students who they support in applying to Oxbridge. So if your kid is extremely bright, but perhaps not in the top 20 in their year, then the SCHOOL THEMSELVES will act to prevent your kid applying. That same child, were they to apply from a local comprehensive, would almost certainly walk in.

So what actually are you getting for your £20k to £40k a year if you go to such a school?

To get into the school your kid has to be almost at GCSE level in maths - at 10! Your kid is going to spend the next 8 years in some mad arms race to get noticed by his teachers, they are going to have to absolutely work their butts off (despite only sitting external exams that are a walk in the park), and then at the end of it, if you aren't one of the school's chosen ones, the school itself will try to discourage you from applying to Oxbridge, and certainly wont support your kid's application.

Surely it makes sense to at least consider whether it isn't actually a much smarter decision to send your kid to a good comprehensive, and then spend a fraction of the fees you would have spent on external tuition, especially given that so much incredible and inspiring teaching is now either free or very cheap online.

This whole process has been a real eye opener for me, and the whole educational rat race we throw our children into seems to be driven by a combination of parental insecurity and a naive and blind faith in educational achievement. Of course we all want our kids to do well at school and to have wonderful and enriched educational experiences. I am just beginning to wonder if sending your kid to an exam factory is the best way to achieve that.

Singingrain1223 · 23/11/2020 11:45

@VLCC , I don't want to get into a Mumsnet argument but please do remember, hardly anyone outside the ds London bubble knows about the 10plusexam, many parents I met when my ds joined Hampton at 11 knew nothing about it.
Many of the ds offered 10 plus places won't take them and instead go to Tiffin or more academic schools you listed instead on scholarships. Hampton offer GCSE maths in year 10 for the top set and further maths in year 11. My ds says they cover simultaneous equations in year 8.

Many dc who get offered a place thrive on the teaching and opportunities, it's a short and packed school day and most ds are home by 5pm. There are lots of schools in the Hampton / Twickenham area that your family can choose from and once the offer letters start rolling in you often get a gut instinct of where your dc would thrive. Finally I would add that Hampton admission process chooses ds that will do well from their system of teaching & can cope with the pressure.

VLCC · 23/11/2020 11:54

I didn’t think I was starting an argument, rather I was simply asking some questions and considering an alternative perspective.

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