What can you do about a bad teacher?

[hosnav]

My daughter started Year 10 nine weeks ago. She has a teacher who's new to the school for Physics and Chemistry and the teacher is a Chemistry specialist. Within a couple of lessons my daughter was telling me that the teacher is very hard to understand. She sets the children tasks in their textbooks without explaining them first, and they are expected to ask if they don't understand. So essentially self teaching with an assistant on hand in case they get stuck. My daughter has also said that when the teacher does explain, she does so in a way that is very difficult to follow. My daughter has had As and above in all the Sciences up until now so it just doesn't make sense that she'd suddenly not be able to understand. I left it a month and then emailed the Head of Science with my concerns. My daughter said their was an immediate improvement in both the structure of the lessons and in the level of support they were being given. We are now a month further on, and my daughter is telling me it's still very hit or miss - some lessons are OK and others are very confusing. I want to contact the school again but I just don't know what they can actually do to help. There clearly was some kind of intervention which made the teacher change tact in the short term, but now standards are slipping again. I just think there is so much content in the Sciences, if the teaching is inconsistent my daughter is going to be so disadvantaged. What can I do??

I’d email again. The fact that you gave it a month, then left it a month, to actually see if there was an improvement, suggests you’re not an unreasonable parent and therefore that the school will take you more seriously. What you’re describing does sound fairly classic for a relatively new teacher who takes on a top/high KS4 set; they often overestimate how able the class are and therefore don’t scaffold enough. Giving clear explanations is actually one of the hardest teaching skills to learn. With COVID, senior/middle leaders won’t be popping in and out of lessons as much so they won’t be seeing those things and reminding these newer teachers that though able students can cope with high challenge, they still need scaffolding to get there too, especially at the moment when we can’t helicopter round and do this in person! When you email again be really specific about what the positives were that your daughter found helpful.

Maybe get her the relevant books to help her learning. Once she has the basic understanding the lessons will be easier to follow the way the teachers teach. I wouldn't necessarily blame the teacher, we all work differently and we all have to adapt. Same as at work.

@Misssugarplum12764

I’d email again. The fact that you gave it a month, then left it a month, to actually see if there was an improvement, suggests you’re not an unreasonable parent and therefore that the school will take you more seriously. What you’re describing does sound fairly classic for a relatively new teacher who takes on a top/high KS4 set; they often overestimate how able the class are and therefore don’t scaffold enough. Giving clear explanations is actually one of the hardest teaching skills to learn. With COVID, senior/middle leaders won’t be popping in and out of lessons as much so they won’t be seeing those things and reminding these newer teachers that though able students can cope with high challenge, they still need scaffolding to get there too, especially at the moment when we can’t helicopter round and do this in person! When you email again be really specific about what the positives were that your daughter found helpful.

Thanks for that. I totally agree and this is not only a new teacher to the school but it's also only her 3rd year as a teacher so I think it's just inexperience. My daughter 'likes' this teacher and didn't want me to email at all, but it's not personal - I am just concerned about my daughter's progress in her crucial exam years. My issue though is realistically speaking, what can the school actually do? They can't make this lady more experienced than she is. They clearly did give her a bit of support and encouragment in response to my initial contact but I'm sure they can't hold her hand on an ongoing basis. I have emailed them again to give an update and they've said they will get back to me next week. However, I just don't see a solution.

I would email again.
As pp said, senior management won't be popping into lessons as regularly where this kind of concern would be noticed and addressed more casually due to the nature of the virus rules. They can however spend time talking to the teacher to discuss how the students are progressing and get the teacher to reflect on how the lessons are going. If she is new to the school I would expect that she is having support from a colleague who has been at the school for a while (that's my experience anyway) and any concerns that are raised would then be addressed in the mentoring meetings they would have. Have you emailed the head of department? They are responsible for managing such concerns. Also, make it clear that your daughter likes the teacher and is keen to have a good working relationship with her. As a head of year myself, when parents show they are concerned and the students are keen to learn it always helps to resolve the concern more effectively and quickly - it also often suggests that the teacher is the one that needs the guidance. If I was dealing with your concern I would also speak to your DD privately to acknowledge her thoughts and offer to organise a conversation between her and the teacher. I would be there to ensure it was a positive conversation where your DD could share what she is thinking and for the teacher to be able to share her thoughts too. Having led this type of conversation with all different year groups I've found it to be very beneficial for both the teacher and student's working relationship and therefore ability to progress (I know the relationship isn't the issue here, but my intention would be for your DD to feel comfortable saying to the teacher that something hasn't been explained fully or too quickly during future lessons if necessary which then resolves the actual issue).

In our school (and I assume most other good schools) new teachers are observed, and given support if they need it. If they don't improve with support then eventually the capability procedures kick in and they effectively managed out, usually choosing to leave before they're given a formal warning. But they do need to be given the opportunity and support to improve first, and that takes time. If you want to know how much time then ask to see your school's HR policies. But as a parent you've done enough and should let the school deal with it. You can support your daughter by encouraging her to self-study the topics on BBC Bitesize or similar. There are lots of materials out there that cover everything she needs to know.

Bear in mind that science teachers are in short supply, so your school may not easily be able to recruit a replacement.

@liquoricecravings

I would email again. As pp said, senior management won't be popping into lessons as regularly where this kind of concern would be noticed and addressed more casually due to the nature of the virus rules. They can however spend time talking to the teacher to discuss how the students are progressing and get the teacher to reflect on how the lessons are going. If she is new to the school I would expect that she is having support from a colleague who has been at the school for a while (that's my experience anyway) and any concerns that are raised would then be addressed in the mentoring meetings they would have. Have you emailed the head of department? They are responsible for managing such concerns. Also, make it clear that your daughter likes the teacher and is keen to have a good working relationship with her. As a head of year myself, when parents show they are concerned and the students are keen to learn it always helps to resolve the concern more effectively and quickly - it also often suggests that the teacher is the one that needs the guidance. If I was dealing with your concern I would also speak to your DD privately to acknowledge her thoughts and offer to organise a conversation between her and the teacher. I would be there to ensure it was a positive conversation where your DD could share what she is thinking and for the teacher to be able to share her thoughts too. Having led this type of conversation with all different year groups I've found it to be very beneficial for both the teacher and student's working relationship and therefore ability to progress (I know the relationship isn't the issue here, but my intention would be for your DD to feel comfortable saying to the teacher that something hasn't been explained fully or too quickly during future lessons if necessary which then resolves the actual issue).

Thank you - that's helpful.

@blagga

In our school (and I assume most other good schools) new teachers are observed, and given support if they need it. If they don't improve with support then eventually the capability procedures kick in and they effectively managed out, usually choosing to leave before they're given a formal warning. But they do need to be given the opportunity and support to improve first, and that takes time. If you want to know how much time then ask to see your school's HR policies. But as a parent you've done enough and should let the school deal with it. You can support your daughter by encouraging her to self-study the topics on BBC Bitesize or similar. There are lots of materials out there that cover everything she needs to know.

Bear in mind that science teachers are in short supply, so your school may not easily be able to recruit a replacement.

Yes, this is my concern. The teacher will be 'improving' while my DD is in her crucial exam years. She's been taught by every other Science teacher in the Department at some point and they are all fantastic. Just feels like extreme bad luck that she's landed with a less capable teacher when it matters most.

Yes, this is my concern. The teacher will be 'improving' while my DD is in her crucial exam years. She's been taught by every other Science teacher in the Department at some point and they are all fantastic. Just feels like extreme bad luck that she's landed with a less capable teacher when it matters most.

But what do you realistically expect them to do? Your daughter is very lucky to have had good science teaching so far .. believe me, that is a priveleged experience, because there aren't enough good science teachers to go around every class in every school. Schools do everything they can to recruit the best teachers, but don't always get a good pool of applicants. This year many will have had to rely on interviews via Zoom and wouldn't have been able to observe teaching as part of the process. Once recruited, they can't just sack and replace struggling teachers at the drop of a hat. And if your school is like every other school in the country their support capacity will be currently more stretched than usual too. So you can make a fuss, but unless they are willing to move your daughter or the teacher to another class (which would solve your individual problem but nobody else's) all you can do is support your daughter to fill in the gaps at home. Many thousands of students around the country have the same experience but your daughter will come out of it much stronger if she realises she can teach herself using the many free resources available online.

@blagga

Yes, this is my concern. The teacher will be 'improving' while my DD is in her crucial exam years. She's been taught by every other Science teacher in the Department at some point and they are all fantastic. Just feels like extreme bad luck that she's landed with a less capable teacher when it matters most.

But what do you realistically expect them to do? Your daughter is very lucky to have had good science teaching so far .. believe me, that is a priveleged experience, because there aren't enough good science teachers to go around every class in every school. Schools do everything they can to recruit the best teachers, but don't always get a good pool of applicants. This year many will have had to rely on interviews via Zoom and wouldn't have been able to observe teaching as part of the process. Once recruited, they can't just sack and replace struggling teachers at the drop of a hat. And if your school is like every other school in the country their support capacity will be currently more stretched than usual too. So you can make a fuss, but unless they are willing to move your daughter or the teacher to another class (which would solve your individual problem but nobody else's) all you can do is support your daughter to fill in the gaps at home. Many thousands of students around the country have the same experience but your daughter will come out of it much stronger if she realises she can teach herself using the many free resources available online.

Ideas that came to my mind were, could they combine Set 1 and Set 2 and team teach so that the Set 2 teacher could be the lead teacher and my DD's Set 1 teacher could assist and follow his example? If they can't combine because of numbers, the other teacher's lesson could be live streamed so my daughter gets a decent lesson and her teachers learns how to structure her lessons better. Could they move her to teach KS3 so kids' exam results are not affected? Could the HOD give her lesson plans and expect her to follow them? This is a fee paying school so not sure I can accept that my daughter should just teach herself. Nor should any child have to.

I honestly think that if your child likes her, and that there was an improvement the last time you mentioned it, that the teacher and the department can get this sorted out really quickly. I could be wrong, but I’m imagining a class of studious, high ability girls who, when asked “does everyone get that?” they politely nod but then sit and struggle. I’ve both been that girl but then also been that teacher with my first all-girls top set who pitched just a bit too high! The first was resolved by my Mum encouraging me to ask and then the second, very swiftly, when I marked my first set of assessments and realised I needed to scaffold more.

I’d email the Head of Science and really be explicit about what was helping, right down to details like “the lessons on covalent bonding where they drew them on the board first” or “when they get sentence starters for their 6 Mark questions”

the other teacher's lesson could be live streamed so my daughter gets a decent lesson

Or she could watch the recorded lwssons in the Oak National Academy website, as so many otherd are doing.

This is a fee paying school so not sure I can accept that my daughter should just teach herself.

It doesn't guarantee immunity from poor teaching. Almost every single one of the unimproved science and maths teachers that our (Ofsted Good) state school has managed out in recent years has moved to fee-paying schools. They had very good academic credentials on paper, but lacked an aptitude for teaching. Though, to be fair, in some cases it was behaviour management that let them down.

What my DD told me is the teacher structures the lesson backwards. She sets them a task with no explanation of why they are doing it or how it fits into the big picture. Once they've done it, she then explains it and finally she will (sometimes) contextualise it. My daughter feels it is up to her (and the other children depend on her) to ask questions in order to understand what it is they are supposed to do, whereas the other teachers make it very explicit what they need to do and why they need to do it and how it connects to everything else they are learning. My son who is in Y11 is also being taught by her. He also says she is very weak but he has a lot more independence than my daughter so he just comes home and teaches himself. I've arranged for my son to meet with the Head of Science tomorrow as he could actually explain much more clearly than she could precisely how this lady's style differs from the other teachers.
Apparently she was very good on paper - came from a prestigious school, has strong academic qualifications, is a DOE leader etc. but none of those things equal being able to communicate what you know effectively to young learners.

My daughter, also in year 10 in a private school, has exactly the same problem although in English. The teacher isn't new but not as good as other teachers she has had. DD said it's a lot of self study in the lesson. We raised it to the head of English. The school talked to DD and told us the exam results are consistently good across all classes. DD thinks they still get good grade because they do their own self study outside the class. Anyway we encourage DD to take this opportunity to be self learner. There are so many resources available on the internet. It does annoy me that we pay the school fees but admit there are things beyond our control. DD isn't gonna take English A-level so that could be a reason I let it go.

Op have you spoken to other parents? It’s important to understand if other kids are struggling or just your daughter as the work has also become more complex.

What my DD told me is the teacher structures the lesson backwards. She sets them a task with no explanation of why they are doing it or how it fits into the big picture. Once they've done it, she then explains it and finally she will (sometimes) contextualise it

I'm wondering whether she's taking this approach as this is a top set group. She could be trying to challenge them to make those connections for themselves.

Agree, she’s likely trying to get them to work it out themselves, if she thinks they have the ability, then explaining how to do it

As said, the trick here is to find out if the other kids are also struggling. I’d speak to a few other parents of kids in the same class.

My daughter has told me that all the children are complaining that they don't understand - including children in lower sets. She seems to be taking the same approach in all classes; not just top set. Whether or not those children tell their parents is up to them - I wouldn't want to be involved in that. Also, for Chemistry my daughter's lessons are split between two teachers and she understands the other teacher perfectly well. Another child (who's exceptionally able) in Y11 told me that she thinks the teacher comes over as being very nervous so that leads me to think this is inexperience rather than an actual thought through strategy. When I contacted the school a month ago, the HOD told me that he thought she was probably pitching too high and not giving enough scaffolding and that's what he sought to address with her. My daughter said their was an immediate improvement. She set the learning goals at the beginning of the lesson and checked in with them much more to make sure they understood. However, that only lasted a couple of weeks and her actual ability to explain concepts in an understandable way didn't improve - from my DD's perspective anyway.

@hosnav

What my DD told me is the teacher structures the lesson backwards. She sets them a task with no explanation of why they are doing it or how it fits into the big picture. Once they've done it, she then explains it and finally she will (sometimes) contextualise it. My daughter feels it is up to her (and the other children depend on her) to ask questions in order to understand what it is they are supposed to do, whereas the other teachers make it very explicit what they need to do and why they need to do it and how it connects to everything else they are learning. My son who is in Y11 is also being taught by her. He also says she is very weak but he has a lot more independence than my daughter so he just comes home and teaches himself. I've arranged for my son to meet with the Head of Science tomorrow as he could actually explain much more clearly than she could precisely how this lady's style differs from the other teachers. Apparently she was very good on paper - came from a prestigious school, has strong academic qualifications, is a DOE leader etc. but none of those things equal being able to communicate what you know effectively to young learners.

Sounds like flipped learning. It has been very ‘in’ during the last few years. It’s not necessarily wrong it’s just not working for your daughter.

@SBBTOL

My daughter, also in year 10 in a private school, has exactly the same problem although in English. The teacher isn't new but not as good as other teachers she has had. DD said it's a lot of self study in the lesson. We raised it to the head of English. The school talked to DD and told us the exam results are consistently good across all classes. DD thinks they still get good grade because they do their own self study outside the class. Anyway we encourage DD to take this opportunity to be self learner. There are so many resources available on the internet. It does annoy me that we pay the school fees but admit there are things beyond our control. DD isn't gonna take English A-level so that could be a reason I let it go.

The same would happen at our school - or parents will get tutors - so the teacher's true impact will never actually be exposed.

My daughter has told me that all the children are complaining that they don't understand - including children in lower sets

Of course she did. I’d recommend asking other parents though. It’s important for you to know if your kid is struggling or if it really is the teachers fault.

@Thatwentbadly

It could be flipped learning but you'd think a Department would have a generally uniform approach, right? The other teachers all have a similar style which is very clear and explicit and directive - which works very well from what I've seen. She is only 14 - I understand them building more independence as time goes on, but she is certainly not there yet.

@Bluntness100 I think I'll leave it for the teachers to investigate. The reason I'm on an anonymous forum is I have no desire to whip other parents in my kid's class into a frenzy, or witch hunt a teacher. And I have no reason to disbelieve my daughter, having had no evidence of her ever lying to me before. She didn't even want me to contact the school; she'd rather have just put up with it in silence.

[quote hosnav]@Bluntness100 I think I'll leave it for the teachers to investigate. The reason I'm on an anonymous forum is I have no desire to whip other parents in my kid's class into a frenzy, or witch hunt a teacher. And I have no reason to disbelieve my daughter, having had no evidence of her ever lying to me before. She didn't even want me to contact the school; she'd rather have just put up with it in silence.[/quote]
Eh?

It does sound like typical flipped classroom methodology.
What has the teacher herself said when you've told her your daughter is struggling sadly in a subject she didn't use to struggle in?
(I ask because DD always got top grades in maths and suddenly, this year, she isn't. New, young teacher. When queried we were told at parents' meeting that previously the old teacher's marks were somewhat high and the work done had been very superficial- in short, the new teacher is actually a much better teacher and though they're finding it hard, the kids themselves are now acknowledging that "for the first time we're doing maths and physics like we ought to")

[quote hosnav]@Thatwentbadly

It could be flipped learning but you'd think a Department would have a generally uniform approach, right? The other teachers all have a similar style which is very clear and explicit and directive - which works very well from what I've seen. She is only 14 - I understand them building more independence as time goes on, but she is certainly not there yet.[/quote]
Not necessarily. Some schools are very happy for teachers to use their own methods, some are more uniform.

Flipped learning is quite a fashionable thing at the moment, so she could have sold it to her HoD as something she wanted to try.

As a science teacher, I think explicit and clear with a lot of teacher talk is necessary sometimes, but it is really not "in fashion" with most teachers at the moment.